earlycanz

This has probably been covered many times but I am new to this forum. I have a 70 240z with a chev327/T5 and stock rear end. i want to upgrade. I have a r200 rear end and know I need a later "mustache" bar, front differential mount and rear differential mount but what about the stub axles. My axles have 2 joints and the r200 appears to have a slide in spline. The axles I received when I pruchased the rear end have the spline but are completely different at the strut connection.
Anybody done this that can help?

preith

First off, the rear diff mount is the mustache bar. Are you planning on using CV halfshafts? What's throwing me off is mention of splines on the axles. If you have the u-joint types, this isn't an issue since there are flanges which slide into the diff, which the axles bolt to.

If you are using cv axles, you'll need to get special adaptor flanges which are available on the web, but I can't remember where.

Also, I'm pretty sure the u-joint stub axle side flange is the same on 240-280, but don't quote me on that.

Phil

earlycanz

Thank you Phil for responding. Therear suspension of a Z is new to me as is some of the terminology. I have dropped the entire rear suspension and to do so removed the front mount, mustache bar, rear transverse link mount(which is what I was referring to), sway bar and strut mount. I thought I needed to replace the rear transverse link mount also.
The real issue for me is the half shafts.... will the original ones from the R180 go into the R200? How do they come out of the R180?
I have new CV half shafts which came with the R200 I bought but as I said the mounting flange on the CV half shaft to the flange on the original strut is entirely different. You mention an adaptor is available, I will search for it on the web. Can I use the old half shafts in the meantime?
I hope thsi all makes sense...sorry I am used to 9 inch rear ends in my other cars but am quite involved and interested in this Z car now. Enough so I may try to pull together enough cash to buy a stock one too.
Len

preith

kbhead, thanks for the link. The rear transverse mount, which the control arms bost to can remain the same. I beleive the mustache bar simply bolts on the other side.

Givin' your motor, I would stay away from the u-joint halfshafts, plus I'm not sure if you can use the R180 ones on an R200, I've never tried.

As for removing them, on a 260Z that I stripped, there was a bolt which threaded into the diff. Once this was removed the halfshafts could slide out, but I think this may have only been on that year. Aside from that, the halfshaft flanges are simply held in with a snap ring of sorts. I ended up using a gear puller with a custom made piece to get mine out of an R200.

You might want to take a look at HybridZ.org. They have a good section just for v8 Z's.

Phil

theramz

I just did this swap on my '70. The R200 you have is from an '84z. The axle flanges will pry out with a couple of screw drivers. You will then need flanges from a '78-'82 R200, they will "pop" in. The flanges from a '75-'79 R180 will also work. As for the CV's I think you might have a problem because the '84 has a wider track, so they will be to long! There is a great picture of the R180 suspension in the MSA catalog (page 84) These componants are straighter and the mustach bar faces forward. The one you need faces the rear and the lower crossbar is curved to the rear, the front mount is the same. Also great pics and info on
www.zhome.com I've got some pics I took along the way if you need them. I read alot of articles and rolled around under alot of cars before I figured it out! There is some coflicting info out there.
Tom

earlycanz

Thank you Tom,
You are correct in terms of information out there. I have looked at many, many sites and some of the information is conflicting. I have even tried to determine what the rear end I got came from which has been unsucessful also. The id on top appears to be P3000 Ithink from memory. It is critical to me that I keep the track the same because I do not want to flair the car. So far from all the suggestions I have gotten I have determined that I need a mustache bar, different half shafts (but I don't know from what yet), diff flanges and new rear mount. Is this what you went through?
Len

theramz

Yep that's the same **** alright. You can use your stock half shafts because they are the same, I used the ones I got from the '78. I don't think they will last with a V8 and T5. I've never seen the ones they mention on this post. As for track, that is something you can't change because it is determined by the "A arm length". You could take the stock CV shafts and have them shortened for some major bucks. You would have to change the outbourd axle flanges, I know they are 6 bolts, I don't know if the splines are the same. More research!

preith

I've read in quite a few places that the axle flanges just "pop" out with a couple of screw drivers, but let me tell you they were a bear to get out of mine!

Like theramz said, and I said in a matter of words, the mustache bar for the 200 simply goes on the back side of the control arm mount (transverse mount), and I wouldn't use the u-joint halfshafts either.

You don't need a different rear mount.

Here's what you need:
1.) 81-83 280ZX turbo CV halfshafts, which don't require any additional mods.
2.) axle side adaptor flanges.
3.) R200 mustache bar.
4.) Solid steel front diff mount, avail. through MSA.

earlycanz

Anyone out there know where to find some 81 to 83 turbo half shafts. I assume they are different from the stock zx.

preith

He advertises alot on zcar.com, and I've gotten stuff from him in a timely manner.

Danny's Datsuns
PO Box 846
Roseburg, OR 97470
(541) 430-1180
dannye@mcsi.net

theramz

One more thing I forgot about, your drive shaft will be about 2 inches too short. Man, are you guys sure those CV axles aren't to long for a 70?

earlycanz

Oh no not another thing I need to do! Does changing the differential require a shorter driveshaft. I have been using a custom made driveshaft with the V8/T5 and the R180 up until now. Are you saying I will need to alter the driveshaft I have?

preith

Yeah, I forgot about the driveshaft. You will have to shorten it. I had a 2+2 driveshaft which I needed shortened to the coupe length, because it had the removable u-joints. I took it to a specialty driveshaft shop, and I beleive it didn't cost more than $50.

As for the halfshafts, I'm absolutely positive. I had these on my Z with the stock ZX flanges, but the flanges were too long, and the halfshafts were binding. With the adaptor plates, this is not an issue. This is explained in detail on Modern Motorsport's page, but I had to find this out the hard way!

I didn't feel like swaping the 240 axle stubs, which the stock ZX turbo flanges would work on, so I ended up selling them. The 280 ones are a larger diameter than the 240's. It wasn't worth the hassle on a NA L28 powertrain. Too bad for earlycanz!!

Phil

preith

I got to thinking about the driveshaft some more. I wonder if this does need any adjustment? I have a 240 shaft along side a 280 one at home, I will check it out this evening.

Phil

preith

Just checked them out, they are the exact same length.

earlycanz

Well this is all a lot of information from all of you fellows and I appreciate all the input. I am very interested in the driveshaft length issue now. I have just picked up the R200 mustache bar, rear cross bar, 2 half shafts and the r200 diff flanges to do this conversion. I already have the R200 diff so I hope I am complete now.

theramz

Say complete? While your doin' all that you might as well install all new urethane bushings to help keep your H.P. goin' to the wheels! I did it and it was worth it but it was more hassle than the R200 swap! Now, don't tell me you still have the drum brakes on the rear! Single piston calipers on the front? Buddy, your just getting started!

theramz

Here is a pic of the R200 swap.

theramz

Here is a pic of the disc brake conversion. You can see how I modified the caliper bracket by cutting off the "ear" that holds the late model e-brake cable. I then took the original stock bracket, cut it down and re-drilled and slotted it. Then I just mounted it on the A arm. I had to cross over the cables, left to right to make up for the extra length and it came out great. Note that the calipers are switched left to right also so the bleeder valve is up.

earlycanz

Yep, still drum brakes but that will be the next project. Paint on the car is 25 years old and in need of replacing but function will win out on the car. Where do I find a "how to page" on the brake conversion or is it a learn as I go project. Your conversion looks very clean and professional. Does it make that much of a difference on a car this light or is it a brake fade issue?

theramz

Brake fade is caused by heat. More weight, higher speed, repeated stops, all equal more heat. I think if I had your car I would go for the fronts first since that is where 60% of the weight is. You can get racing shoes for the back. I can walk you through the process when your ready. Have you tried www.zhome.com yet? Lots of "How To " articles there. Take them all with a grain of salt!

earlycanz

I will take you up on that when I am at that point. I have printed off many, many, many articles and have gone over them along with the advice and suggestions I have received through this forum. My tendency is to try and get advice from the individual who has actually done the conversion which is where this forum has been very useful. The JTR manual, as good as it is in some areas, does not really cover the differential swap very well.
As far as brakes i think I may just do the disc swap out over the winter while the car is on stands and all the suspension is out. I am going through all the bushings whether they look like they need replacing or not, after all they are 33 years old now by the looks of them.
How involved is the disc brake swap and what components are needed for this...I may as well start collecting the parts now.

theramz

Okay, but this thread started out as "R200 problem". I will gather what info I have along with pictures and try to compose something that can be followed on a new thread soon. That way when the subject comes up again I can repost it, Probably after the holidays.
Z safe!

Darrel

Check out my photo gallery. I have done the cv swap and also have the lsd using the finned cover.

The cv axles and companion flanges you can get from 81-83 turbos and also 82-83 2+2. I'm not sure if the 79-81 had the cv axles.