200 hp n/a ???
11-26-2003 | 09:31 AM
#2
The Evil Twin
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,296
From: Seattle, WA
It'll actually be a little difficult. That's near the peak of most at-home mechanics abilities for a 2-valve per cylinder 2.8L engine.
Besides the normal stuff, I would think that a custom intake manifold would be in order for that kind of power and probably you can use stock 280ZX turbo injectors.
As for time with the wrench? I have no clue. Lots... is that undetailed enough?
Besides the normal stuff, I would think that a custom intake manifold would be in order for that kind of power and probably you can use stock 280ZX turbo injectors.
As for time with the wrench? I have no clue. Lots... is that undetailed enough?
11-26-2003 | 09:44 AM
#3
Super Siver & Black Stud
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,526
From: Hayward Ca
like bleach said.. its a lil difficult but also expensive. you would want to get your head port and pollished and a performance cam added.. get a set of headders custom intake 60 mm throttle body. youd also want to bore and stoke your engine too.. and yeah.. thatsnot gonna be cheap....
11-26-2003 | 08:46 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 903
From: Alameda, CA
Well, I've thought about all of that. I guess I'm on the right track.
I've found a place that'll sell me a Nismo header for $200. That's on the x-mas list!!! If not, a must have. I've got a great exhaust shop...so no problems there. I can do the cam (and all THAT involves) in a weekend... Any reccomendations on what type of cam, brand, etc...? I was looking at the Crane in the Victoria Brittish catalog, but I've heardthat they've gone downhill lately.
Hmmm.....I might have to make up the difference with a No2 bottle. The wifey won't go for the bore & storke....Unless we hit the lotto....
Thanx !!!
I've found a place that'll sell me a Nismo header for $200. That's on the x-mas list!!! If not, a must have. I've got a great exhaust shop...so no problems there. I can do the cam (and all THAT involves) in a weekend... Any reccomendations on what type of cam, brand, etc...? I was looking at the Crane in the Victoria Brittish catalog, but I've heardthat they've gone downhill lately.
Hmmm.....I might have to make up the difference with a No2 bottle. The wifey won't go for the bore & storke....Unless we hit the lotto....
Thanx !!!
11-26-2003 | 11:06 PM
#5
The Evil Twin
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,296
From: Seattle, WA
I wouldn't say you need to stroke it. You can get it with high compression and a great intake/exahust with proper fuel management.... aim for 6500 rpm or higher. Tighter springs, light weight valves, and of course the long duration cam. Go for the massive one that kills your torque and idle. That's probably the only way to get in the 200's.
As for dynoing the car; put a 3.9 or 4.11 rear in there. That does boost the power at the wheels.
As for dynoing the car; put a 3.9 or 4.11 rear in there. That does boost the power at the wheels.
12-08-2003 | 02:53 PM
#7
The Evil Twin
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,296
From: Seattle, WA
4.11 rear and the 81-83 n/a 5-speed are wonderful! 3000rpm at 70mph. That's not much more than a stock 280Z with a 5-speed, right?
3.9 would be even lower rpm. (my 82 with that tall 5th gear has a 3.9 stock)
anyway, new newz on the 200hp n/a. Seems this local guy has an engine he built in a 280Z. Dynoed at 205hp at the wheels. Here's the basic specs.
Old N42(?) block, but with flat top pistons. 1mm over, not stroked
N47 head, the one with round exhaust ports.
Shaved head slightly, 460 lift 272 duration cam. (midrange)
Hugely ported intake on head to match the tripple sidedraft carbs' intake.
MSD ignition coil (for what its worth)
Nissan EI distributor
Stock exhaust ports, 6 into 1 headers 2.5" exhaust
I forgot to ask what rearend he used. Maybe the 3.54 if so, that's very impressive!
The engine is for sale too, and I want it...
Power is found on the intake, not the exhaust. That's what he told me. That thing pulls hard to 6500 rpm
3.9 would be even lower rpm. (my 82 with that tall 5th gear has a 3.9 stock)
anyway, new newz on the 200hp n/a. Seems this local guy has an engine he built in a 280Z. Dynoed at 205hp at the wheels. Here's the basic specs.
Old N42(?) block, but with flat top pistons. 1mm over, not stroked
N47 head, the one with round exhaust ports.
Shaved head slightly, 460 lift 272 duration cam. (midrange)
Hugely ported intake on head to match the tripple sidedraft carbs' intake.
MSD ignition coil (for what its worth)
Nissan EI distributor
Stock exhaust ports, 6 into 1 headers 2.5" exhaust
I forgot to ask what rearend he used. Maybe the 3.54 if so, that's very impressive!
The engine is for sale too, and I want it...
Power is found on the intake, not the exhaust. That's what he told me. That thing pulls hard to 6500 rpm
12-16-2003 | 10:28 PM
#8
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 903
From: Alameda, CA
SWEETNESS!!!! I knew it could be done. That doesn't seem like too much work. However...(forgive me here) what block does an L28 have??? I want to use my block, balance it then do the cams 'n' stuff...
If I remember right, I already have the flat top pistons...
If I remember right, I already have the flat top pistons...
12-17-2003 | 11:32 AM
#9
The Evil Twin
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,296
From: Seattle, WA
Ya so you're basically looking at 10.5:1 compression as your goal, ported intake, polished exhaust ports if you have the square ones. He's got nicely tuned sidedrafts and he actually had to tune up to that point. He had them running great from what he thought and dynoed about 188hp so he got almost +20hp out of the sidedrafts by tuning them on the dyno day!
As for fuel injection, you won't be flowing enough air with the stock intake manifold. If you do use it, port the runners and the throttle attachments and get a big throttle, turbo AFM conversion ect, richen the mixture up.
and that horsepower peaked at 6500. The bottom end was balanced and he used 3.9 and 4.11 rear gears but couldn't remember which one was on when he dynoed the car...
As for fuel injection, you won't be flowing enough air with the stock intake manifold. If you do use it, port the runners and the throttle attachments and get a big throttle, turbo AFM conversion ect, richen the mixture up.
and that horsepower peaked at 6500. The bottom end was balanced and he used 3.9 and 4.11 rear gears but couldn't remember which one was on when he dynoed the car...
01-06-2004 | 12:03 PM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
here ya go, I just copied and pasted one of Norms post from Zcar.com. it goes into detail about his set-up. he figures he is pushing about 230ish to the wheels. thats insane! norm is the man! lol
"Author:_norm(The 12 sec Dual SU Dude)_(---.hkry.nc.charter.com)
Date:___Nov 15, 2003 10:02am
Thanks for the kind words guys!!!
BTW,werddekciw, here is an updated rundown on my setup.
I've been driving a 240Z as my daily driver for over 14 years now. They are great cars!
Car: Daily driven N/A 1971 240Z that gets 21 mpg while being driven INSANELY!! LOL
Best 1/4 mile ET: 12.804 @ 107.26 mph
Weight: 2320 lbs with spare tire + full gas tank
Race weight: 2410 lbs. this weight includes myself at 185 lbs. plus approx. 5 gallons of fuel and spare tire removed.
Engine stats
Displacement: 2.9L
Redline: 7100 rpm
Block: Stock factory bore 1975 280 with valve reliefs at top of the bores for improved breathing.
Crankshaft: Stock Maxima diesel crankshaft that was balanced and polished.
Pistons: .015" shaved 1975 280 dished pistons
Rods: 75 280 rods
Note: I personally balanced the pistons and rods as an assembled unit.(That is an advantage to a straight 6 in that you can it that way) Although 1 gram is considered acceptable difference, I balanced them to within 0.1 gram on an extremely accurate paint weighing scale.
Deck clearance: Pistons extend up out of the block deck by .063"
Head gasketS: TWO stock 280z Victor reinz headgaskets( I had to use two headgaskets due to the positive piston deck height) The HKS was too narrow for my application.
Compression ratio: Approx. 10.7:1
Head : .070" shaved N42 head with steel valve seats and a mild port and polish job I did myself with a 1200 rpm hand drill and sandpaper rolls!! It took weeks to do this working nights after work. BTW, a high rpm Dremel tool would have knocked weeks off of this task....but I was too cheap to buy one!!! LOL!!
Valves: Stock 280 valves ,but I polished the face and backside of the valves to a high gloss by inserting them in the afore mentioned drill and using 4 different grades of sandpaper to shine to a mirror finish.
Cam: 272/282 .450" lift Crane cam
Rocker arms: resurfaced stock 1975 280(Don't buy the crane rocker arms as the quality is WAY inferior to the stock Nissan rocker arms)
Springs: New Stock 280 springs
Cam towers: shimmed .030"
Flywheel: 21 lb. balanced flywheel.
Crankshaft-damper/pulley: Euro damper (The 280 damper/pulley will come apart when constantly subjected to revs in excess of 6500 rpm and its larger diameter robs HP .Also the stock 240 pulley will also separate over time but it takes three times as long for them to fail .)
Radiator: 3 core form 280Z
Carbs: Dual SU's from 1971 240Z bored out to 50 mm. I am using performance fuel needles and do not run the piston dampening rods. The throttle shafts were narrowed down by use of a file.
Air filters: Dual K+N
Header: Motorsport 6 into 2
Exhaust: 2 1/2 inch NON mandrel bend with 2 chamber Flowmaster muffler.
NOTE: I run without the exhaust system hooked up at the track. Three bolts and off comes the whole system.
Ignition system: Stock 1978 Datsun 810 electronic ignition and coil with 8 mm NGK Spark plug wires and NGK spark plugs gapped .050"
Clutch: Centerforce Dual Friction.
Transmission: Stock rebuilt 82 280 ZX 5 speed with 1979 280ZX input shaft and countershaft gear installed for a lower gear ratio and some important steel parts from the earlier 79 280ZX 5 speed.
Rear end: Stock 82 280ZX OPEN 3.90 R200
Tires: El cheapo Dayton 195/60R14HR street tires
12.804 @ 107.26 mph on Street Tires N/A 2.9L Dual SU powered
Post Edited (Nov 16, 9:17pm)"
"Author:_norm(The 12 sec Dual SU Dude)_(---.hkry.nc.charter.com)
Date:___Nov 15, 2003 10:02am
Thanks for the kind words guys!!!
BTW,werddekciw, here is an updated rundown on my setup.
I've been driving a 240Z as my daily driver for over 14 years now. They are great cars!
Car: Daily driven N/A 1971 240Z that gets 21 mpg while being driven INSANELY!! LOL
Best 1/4 mile ET: 12.804 @ 107.26 mph
Weight: 2320 lbs with spare tire + full gas tank
Race weight: 2410 lbs. this weight includes myself at 185 lbs. plus approx. 5 gallons of fuel and spare tire removed.
Engine stats
Displacement: 2.9L
Redline: 7100 rpm
Block: Stock factory bore 1975 280 with valve reliefs at top of the bores for improved breathing.
Crankshaft: Stock Maxima diesel crankshaft that was balanced and polished.
Pistons: .015" shaved 1975 280 dished pistons
Rods: 75 280 rods
Note: I personally balanced the pistons and rods as an assembled unit.(That is an advantage to a straight 6 in that you can it that way) Although 1 gram is considered acceptable difference, I balanced them to within 0.1 gram on an extremely accurate paint weighing scale.
Deck clearance: Pistons extend up out of the block deck by .063"
Head gasketS: TWO stock 280z Victor reinz headgaskets( I had to use two headgaskets due to the positive piston deck height) The HKS was too narrow for my application.
Compression ratio: Approx. 10.7:1
Head : .070" shaved N42 head with steel valve seats and a mild port and polish job I did myself with a 1200 rpm hand drill and sandpaper rolls!! It took weeks to do this working nights after work. BTW, a high rpm Dremel tool would have knocked weeks off of this task....but I was too cheap to buy one!!! LOL!!
Valves: Stock 280 valves ,but I polished the face and backside of the valves to a high gloss by inserting them in the afore mentioned drill and using 4 different grades of sandpaper to shine to a mirror finish.
Cam: 272/282 .450" lift Crane cam
Rocker arms: resurfaced stock 1975 280(Don't buy the crane rocker arms as the quality is WAY inferior to the stock Nissan rocker arms)
Springs: New Stock 280 springs
Cam towers: shimmed .030"
Flywheel: 21 lb. balanced flywheel.
Crankshaft-damper/pulley: Euro damper (The 280 damper/pulley will come apart when constantly subjected to revs in excess of 6500 rpm and its larger diameter robs HP .Also the stock 240 pulley will also separate over time but it takes three times as long for them to fail .)
Radiator: 3 core form 280Z
Carbs: Dual SU's from 1971 240Z bored out to 50 mm. I am using performance fuel needles and do not run the piston dampening rods. The throttle shafts were narrowed down by use of a file.
Air filters: Dual K+N
Header: Motorsport 6 into 2
Exhaust: 2 1/2 inch NON mandrel bend with 2 chamber Flowmaster muffler.
NOTE: I run without the exhaust system hooked up at the track. Three bolts and off comes the whole system.
Ignition system: Stock 1978 Datsun 810 electronic ignition and coil with 8 mm NGK Spark plug wires and NGK spark plugs gapped .050"
Clutch: Centerforce Dual Friction.
Transmission: Stock rebuilt 82 280 ZX 5 speed with 1979 280ZX input shaft and countershaft gear installed for a lower gear ratio and some important steel parts from the earlier 79 280ZX 5 speed.
Rear end: Stock 82 280ZX OPEN 3.90 R200
Tires: El cheapo Dayton 195/60R14HR street tires
12.804 @ 107.26 mph on Street Tires N/A 2.9L Dual SU powered
Post Edited (Nov 16, 9:17pm)"
02-05-2004 | 08:11 PM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
If you follow the followng link you'll find a R&T article concerning the IMSA and SCCA 280ZX's N/A cars, with the IMSA running 270 BHP and the SCCA running 300 BHP; both cars making peak power at 7500 RPM, easily within the limits of the engine. Note that the IMSA car was GTU class which had a 2.5 liter limit; they stroked the motor down to 2486 cc. Both cars used Mikuni/Solex carbs (three each).
Granted these are top dollar race cars (production based) and the components used are custom and expensive. But it can be done, with stock blocks (suitably reworked, of course). Although I wouldn't say they would give you much in the way of Nissan's famed reliability, however.
Remeber, this cars were built almost 25 years ago, the article is dated June 1980
http://zhome.com/History/Electramotive/ElSh28zx.htm
Granted these are top dollar race cars (production based) and the components used are custom and expensive. But it can be done, with stock blocks (suitably reworked, of course). Although I wouldn't say they would give you much in the way of Nissan's famed reliability, however.
Remeber, this cars were built almost 25 years ago, the article is dated June 1980
http://zhome.com/History/Electramotive/ElSh28zx.htm
02-06-2004 | 08:32 PM
#13
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 903
From: Alameda, CA
Ok....I'm not looking for all of THAT. Crap, I want to have SOME money to buy food and stuff..........
But, it is good to know that it can be done.
If anyone is in the D/FW area, I'm taking my ZX to the track in Ennis on Feb. 20th....as it is, nothing special. It's $8 to watch $15 to race all you want. This is a NHRA track so there are rules.
Texas Motorplex
Hope to see some of you there!!
But, it is good to know that it can be done.
If anyone is in the D/FW area, I'm taking my ZX to the track in Ennis on Feb. 20th....as it is, nothing special. It's $8 to watch $15 to race all you want. This is a NHRA track so there are rules.
Texas Motorplex
Hope to see some of you there!!
