vvillium3

hello,

the otehr day I was driving my 81 turbo and I started getting this rapid knocking on part throttle or when I let off after accelerating. I knoticed this immediatly and starting wondering what the heck it was. The sound continued to get worse, so I pulled off the road and noticed low oil pressure and about every second a decent knocking sound. I turned the engine off and pulled it to my house. A look at the oil pan told it all. METAL!!!!!! So my question being. Obviously my oil pump went out, but do I need to rebuild my engine or not. The cam still looks good and the engine turns fine with a ratchet. I all seems good besides the metal powder in the pan.......... please any suggestions

PBGreg21

Im guessing you threw a piston rod, your pretty much screwed. DO NOT drive the car you could blow a hole in your block. I had the same thing happen to me, your gonna need to replace the engine unless you do a major overhaul.

Bleach

I dont' think he did that. Your engine won't still idle if you threw a rod. They dont' just fly out of the engine and leave the other 5 pistons room to turn. A thrown rod will jam the engine solid and seize it up.

I think you'll be fine to replace the fuel pump and see how it goes. How much metal was in the pan? Did you pull the pan off or did you drain the oil and find the flakes in the oil?

vvillium3

I pulled the pan and found the metal in the back flat section of the pan...If I were to collect it all I would bet it would size up to a small hill the size of a half dollar. I don't think I threw a rod because I can look up at the bottom of the engine and it all looks good. I just hope it didn't do too much damage while I was driving it....

thanks for the help

jason

icice9

that amount of metal isnt good at all... driving the car can only cause more damage to the engine.. if budget is an issue ig try to find a turbo bottom end at a junk yard and just swap it out with yours for the mean time.. and rebuild the bottom end when you can afford it.. it shouldnt cost you more than $1000 at most to get the bottom end rebuilt...

280Z4ME

The only other option is about the same. Pull the motor tear it down and rebuild it. This way you know there is no more metel in it. And look at the bright side you have a new motor.

vvillium3

yeah, it is starting to look like a rebuild. Luckily I have another car to drive, and I just got my taxes back, so I am good to go... Also, what internals do you guys recommend???? I want to make some decent power. In the relm of 275+ hp at the motor, and since I am at this stage in the game what is the best route??? Definatly a balanced crank, but what kind of pistons, rings, headgasket ,bore, kit, and maybe even crank would you suggest???? And also where to get it from??? I already have a good intercooler, exhaust, blow-off valve, boost controller, injectors+rail, air fuel ratio gage, and many other goodies, but would definatly like to keep it under $$1500 though. once again thanks for your help. I was sittin on the edge just needed a push. Starting to be a 280zx freak......I love it

Thanks,
Jason

Skully

im building a turbo motor with stock internals and i plan on pushing 300...from the research i did these motors are very well built for stock 6psi...you could run your stock turbo to that hp but you would be overworking it...if i was in your place i would look at gettina a hybrid t04e or 4b and slapping that on ..
just keep in mind the more boost you put in the less and less you can use your stock EFI....from what ive read it starts leaning out at 10 psi of boost....i just got my 440cc injectors and im about to order megasquirt...but just these two things will put you in the ~600 dollar range...
you have to start doing research and see how far you want to get with that 1500$

what kinda metal was in the pan? chunks? did it look like rings or maybe top of a piston? maybe you lost a bearing and it just shreded it, who knows...

EatmyDust

Not to be a wise *** but the corect defanition of a thrown rod would be a rod that has made a hole through the block. you can brake a rod and not throw it. any who your oil pum you could have done what some of us call cndycained the oil pump drive. what the standerd procedure for this is usually to replace the pump, pump drive, and drive gears. sometimes it shears the gears. but I don't know that this is your problem, and seeing how you are running a trubo I don't know if you starved the engine of oil enough to do some serious damage or not. look into it.

vvillium3

well I pulled the oil pump off last night, and the internals and the drive gear looked... fine. Just some extremely minor scuffs on the inside of the pump. So that shoots down my bad oil pump thought.... I gonna keep on investigating and keep you guys updated... OH, the shavings were like powder, really small...

jason

Bleach

Oil pumps are pretty heafty. They usually don't go out. If the shavings were that small, I would suggest that you probably don't need a rebuild. I guess its up to you to take all the advice and make your own decision. I would think that if you keep oil in the engine and keep doing the oil changes just see how it runs. You can't really do any worse to it unless something is knocking...

BigEkak1941

You have many options. Most important do not drive the car in it's current state. Second since you have a second car you can price out the various options i.e. stock rebuilding, getting an engine from a junk yard, you could soup up the engine when rebuilding (big bucks). If your able to work on the engine yourself, I would recommend pulling the engine and breaking it down since you have metal shavenings the engine needs to be flushed. You can take out the pistons & rods (possibly the noise is a loose rod), but when you tear the engine down you can make a decision at that time. If it's only the oil pump clean out the engine & put back together with a new pump. Like I said you have many options. Good luck.

vvillium3

well I just checked compression and it was all good. So it must be a rod or somehting like that. Thanks god I don't have to get it bored out.... What would you guys suggest as far as crank work and what and where to get the best bearings and stuff for the short block rebuild.

jason

ZedZilla

Hi, Sorry to read about your trouble ...I got a couple of questions since this is a learning thing for all of us

First of all, other then the shavings you found, what makes you certain you need a rebuild? (unless you have already dissassembled the engine to find broken part(s)) .
Secondly, when you turned your engine over to test compression did the sound re-occur? or got worse?
Thirdly, was the compression even across the cylinders? if so you can possibly eliminate most rotating/thrusting mass and maybe go right to the bearings/crank etc
Fourthly, as a result of that testing did you get more shavings? assuming you have had the car awhile and have done previous oil changes relatively recently...hence the shavings had simply not built up over time.

hopefuly you are able to avoid costly repairs/replacements

If despite the above you still need a bottom end rebuild then as an argueable suggestion, here goes....I have read another post ot two here that say that cranks between non-turbos and turbos can be exchanged since they are essentialy the same. and as I understand that the higher compression non-turbo engine has to do with the different head so the bottom end doesn't matter?? if confirmed so by others here then that should make your choices a bit more broad ...used and new.

I do agree with Bleach that since you really have not too much to loose here, maybe some light/careful testing of the engine is all you need to do at this point...

Skully

bottom end does matter for high compression...
the flat top pistons give you higher compression then the turbo (DISHED) pistons...
cranks are interchangable as i have also been told they are same and i wouldnt need a turbo crank for my turbo build.

vvillium3

all right lets get into this one....

Yes I have had the car for a little while and have done previous oil changes on it. When comprssion testing, no there was no bad engine sound, but there is something definatly messed up in there. Even compression on all cylinders. Filter was full of shaving as well when I pulled it off. I was not before.... Engine hopefully comes out this week, I have spring break. I will keep you all updated. By the way anyone out there, I might be needing another crank, so let me know if someones got one...

jason

DoTheDrew888

I might be able to cover you on that area. I am pulling an engine and tearing it apart for the pistons within the next couple weeks. If you live anywhere near NC we might be able to work something out. I don't think i'll be needing the crank.

ZedZilla

seems like your only option now is exactly what you intent to do.... pull the engine and rebuild whats broken. again hopefully its not too costly.

seems you might have a line on the crank. in case it doesn't work out there is a local z shop here in Vancouver and has a lot of zcar engines/engine parts might be worth a shot as well. you can get a hold of Dan at (604)507-2409. also there is danny's datsuns in oregon..i have seen his posts in the wanted/for sale sections on different websites, if you search you will find it.

Good luck

vvillium3

well I live in Michigan, but that doesn't mean we can't work something out. Let me know when you get it apart and the condition of it. You can email at @ vvillium3@cs.com with a price you are thinking of. I will be pulling apart my egine this week so I will know for sure what needs to be done...

thanks,
Jason