L motor build questions
03-08-2010, 01:00 PM
#1
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L motor build questions
So the talon will be sold soon n then starts the parts buying ffor the s30. Now I was researching a few hours last night but still had a few questions I wanted personal input on. Now I'd like to do 400hp at the wheels eventually so while the motor is pulled I want to prep for that.
First question is. I plan on arp main and rod bolts and head studs n a mls head gasket. But which gasket is the wuestion. I want to use the MSA one but wondering if anyone thinks they are trash or good.
Nest isrods. I have read both stock rods are strong n fine if shot peened n balanced n also heard not do much. I will go forged pistons tho do input?
Finally is valve train. I'd like to rev the motorhigher so heavier springs will be used just wondering if any one had any preferences. But also if I should do something about the tensioner but keep in mind I really doubt I got 700 for the kameAri one haha. Ok go!!!!!
First question is. I plan on arp main and rod bolts and head studs n a mls head gasket. But which gasket is the wuestion. I want to use the MSA one but wondering if anyone thinks they are trash or good.
Nest isrods. I have read both stock rods are strong n fine if shot peened n balanced n also heard not do much. I will go forged pistons tho do input?
Finally is valve train. I'd like to rev the motorhigher so heavier springs will be used just wondering if any one had any preferences. But also if I should do something about the tensioner but keep in mind I really doubt I got 700 for the kameAri one haha. Ok go!!!!!
03-08-2010, 02:41 PM
#3
Stupid Hurricanes...
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: louisiana
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use 300zx valve springs...stock rods should hold up as far as pistons goes it depends. forged is that little insurance that calms the mind but if you have a good tune and gas you wont have to worry much unless you plan to beat the hell out of it. Methanol is something to look into if you dont wanna forge. balance and blue print of the engine will be good to start of with
03-08-2010, 05:14 PM
#5
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nismo, you know it is a turbo motor, remember, i have a S30 with an L28ET in it. lol. like i'd ever build an NA L series... and yeah alky come along sometime. and tho i don't beat my cars, i did plan on this seeing a couple track days or time attacks. and which 300zx valve springs? but that's an awesome option, will probably save me tons of money since if i finally ever got around to revving the motor up higher it wouldn't be anything crazy, maybe 8k and the highest. probably more like 7500. but with a much more aggressive cam so i want to have things covered there. but yeah Z31 or Z32 valve springs?
and i did say i wanna go forged pistons, i think, if not i meant to, its just the rods i have in question.
and i did say i wanna go forged pistons, i think, if not i meant to, its just the rods i have in question.
03-08-2010, 07:39 PM
#10
Achieving 300whp doesn't have anything to do w/ reliability.
Things fail when done incorrectly. The L-Series motor is far less complicated than the VG, thus, the VG would have many more parts to fail, and the builder would have much more opportunity to screw up.
I'm jus sayin...
Things fail when done incorrectly. The L-Series motor is far less complicated than the VG, thus, the VG would have many more parts to fail, and the builder would have much more opportunity to screw up.
I'm jus sayin...
03-08-2010, 07:49 PM
#11
Ruff Ryder
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: palm desert
Posts: 6,140
Achieving 300whp doesn't have anything to do w/ reliability.
It does when you try and boost a stock long block L series to 300WHP, from what I have gathered over the years, usually the first to go is the head gasket, then the ring lands. only a few people that I know of, have successfully road raced with properly built l28, pushing more then 250WHP, where the motor has not failed.
Things fail when done incorrectly. The L-Series motor is far less complicated than the VG, thus, the VG would have many more parts to fail, and the builder would have much more opportunity to screw up.
I'm jus sayin...
It does when you try and boost a stock long block L series to 300WHP, from what I have gathered over the years, usually the first to go is the head gasket, then the ring lands. only a few people that I know of, have successfully road raced with properly built l28, pushing more then 250WHP, where the motor has not failed.
Things fail when done incorrectly. The L-Series motor is far less complicated than the VG, thus, the VG would have many more parts to fail, and the builder would have much more opportunity to screw up.
I'm jus sayin...
03-08-2010, 09:03 PM
#12
i felld offa mai trike
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 827
let's see... two cams, timing belt, side-feed injectors, slow oil system, heads don't flow for ****; even ported, etc. etc.
The L has one cam (less moving parts), a timing chain (lasts longer than a belt) top feed injectors (don't become clogged easily), a pretty nice oiling system (so you don't spin bearings), and the head flows somewhat decently; not great, mind you, but decently.
Get the rods shot peened and you'll be good to go there
Don't skimp on valvesprings, get some schneider ones or something.
And finally:
NA is best.
The L has one cam (less moving parts), a timing chain (lasts longer than a belt) top feed injectors (don't become clogged easily), a pretty nice oiling system (so you don't spin bearings), and the head flows somewhat decently; not great, mind you, but decently.
Get the rods shot peened and you'll be good to go there
Don't skimp on valvesprings, get some schneider ones or something.
And finally:
NA is best.
03-08-2010, 09:23 PM
#13
Ruff Ryder
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: palm desert
Posts: 6,140
let's see... two cams, timing belt, side-feed injectors, slow oil system, heads don't flow for ****; even ported, etc. etc.
The L has one cam (less moving parts), a timing chain (lasts longer than a belt) top feed injectors (don't become clogged easily), a pretty nice oiling system (so you don't spin bearings), and the head flows somewhat decently; not great, mind you, but decently.
Get the rods shot peened and you'll be good to go there
Don't skimp on valvesprings, get some schneider ones or something.
And finally:
NA is best.
The L has one cam (less moving parts), a timing chain (lasts longer than a belt) top feed injectors (don't become clogged easily), a pretty nice oiling system (so you don't spin bearings), and the head flows somewhat decently; not great, mind you, but decently.
Get the rods shot peened and you'll be good to go there
Don't skimp on valvesprings, get some schneider ones or something.
And finally:
NA is best.
03-08-2010, 09:35 PM
#14
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lol, well hoov, the amount of work that would go into the swapping of a VG30ET and price, would outweigh my current goals and price range. and if i were to bother swapping motor at all, i would go RB or SR. i wouldnt waste the time money or inginuity on a SLIGHT upgrade in motor. and the VG weighs more the the L, so being a shorter block even, i doubt it has much advantage in the long run. and there is just something great about a turbo L motor, if only it's head design was ****!!!! lol.
ok so then, stock rods, ok to use just treat them. CHECK!
valve springs, Z31 is def in mind, but matt, what did your L rev to and what sort of cam? just don't want valves floating, i know how the L is somewhat prone to it when doing these upgrades.
So now i am just waiting on input about a tensioner and the MLS headgasket. nismo what brand MLS did you use, and how did you like it? or anyone for that matter...
ok so then, stock rods, ok to use just treat them. CHECK!
valve springs, Z31 is def in mind, but matt, what did your L rev to and what sort of cam? just don't want valves floating, i know how the L is somewhat prone to it when doing these upgrades.
So now i am just waiting on input about a tensioner and the MLS headgasket. nismo what brand MLS did you use, and how did you like it? or anyone for that matter...
03-08-2010, 09:43 PM
#15
I have the 2mm MLS from MSA. I can't remember if it was made by Nissan, HKS, or Kameari... but it's nice. I ran 14psi boost w/ no probs. I'd go w/ the 1mm now, but it's frickin more expensive than the 2mm...
Good luck on that JDM external tensioner. It's a BAMF, but so expensive!
Good luck on that JDM external tensioner. It's a BAMF, but so expensive!
03-08-2010, 09:49 PM
#16
Ruff Ryder
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: palm desert
Posts: 6,140
lol, well hoov, the amount of work that would go into the swapping of a VG30ET and price, would outweigh my current goals and price range. and if i were to bother swapping motor at all, i would go RB or SR. i wouldnt waste the time money or inginuity on a SLIGHT upgrade in motor. and the VG weighs more the the L, so being a shorter block even, i doubt it has much advantage in the long run. and there is just something great about a turbo L motor, if only it's head design was ****!!!! lol.
ok so then, stock rods, ok to use just treat them. CHECK!
valve springs, Z31 is def in mind, but matt, what did your L rev to and what sort of cam? just don't want valves floating, i know how the L is somewhat prone to it when doing these upgrades.
So now i am just waiting on input about a tensioner and the MLS headgasket. nismo what brand MLS did you use, and how did you like it? or anyone for that matter...
ok so then, stock rods, ok to use just treat them. CHECK!
valve springs, Z31 is def in mind, but matt, what did your L rev to and what sort of cam? just don't want valves floating, i know how the L is somewhat prone to it when doing these upgrades.
So now i am just waiting on input about a tensioner and the MLS headgasket. nismo what brand MLS did you use, and how did you like it? or anyone for that matter...
03-08-2010, 09:57 PM
#17
"Better" is an overly broad statement... just like your previous statement about the L-Series being less reliable... which you dodged MY question and said "when something fails". The VG30ET headgasket will fail by overboosting just like any other motor... aside from that, there's no other parts between the L28ET and VG30 that are more or less prone to failure.
And...
I never said the L28ET was "better" than the VG30... I said:
And...
I never said the L28ET was "better" than the VG30... I said:
03-08-2010, 09:59 PM
#18
Ruff Ryder
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: palm desert
Posts: 6,140
"Better" is an overly broad statement... just like your previous statement about the L-Series being less reliable... which you dodged MY question and said "when something fails". The VG30ET headgasket will fail by overboosting just like any other motor... aside from that, there's no other parts between the L28ET and VG30 that are more or less prone to failure.
And...
I never said the L28ET was "better" than the VG30... I said:
And...
I never said the L28ET was "better" than the VG30... I said:
03-08-2010, 10:14 PM
#20
Ruff Ryder
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: palm desert
Posts: 6,140
If you replace the timing belt when your supposed to (only takes about an hour and a half to change it) then you shouldn't have any problems with the belt. (unless it was made in china or installed incorrectly) You have to think of the losses associated with having a huge heavy chain, drive your cam. a stock z31 has hydraulic lifters, but if they manage to freeze up, they are only $12 a piece and converting to a solid lifter is pretty easy, using adjustable rb30 rockers. the two heads, two cams argument doesnt really work, seeing how strait forward the valve train is on them.
03-09-2010, 07:22 AM
#21
i felld offa mai trike
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 827
I like the fact that the oiling system in the VG30 hasn't been brought up yet... it takes alotta work to get the oiling system up to par with a high-revving/high HP motor.
Also, inline 6's are "naturally" balanced whereas the V6's aren't.
And yes, the two heads, two cams argument does really work because THERES MORE MOVING PARTS, whether you like it or not.
And as far as your weight comparison goes, I would love to see some proof of that (pics of the motor on the scale, then close up of the reading). I have a hard time believing that a iron V6 weighs THAT much less than an iron I6...
Also, inline 6's are "naturally" balanced whereas the V6's aren't.
And yes, the two heads, two cams argument does really work because THERES MORE MOVING PARTS, whether you like it or not.
And as far as your weight comparison goes, I would love to see some proof of that (pics of the motor on the scale, then close up of the reading). I have a hard time believing that a iron V6 weighs THAT much less than an iron I6...
03-09-2010, 09:58 AM
#22
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yeah nismo the 1mm is ALOT more expensive, the 2mm one is just listed as MSA so idk. but why would you prefer the 1mm, 2mm seems like a better option with a turbo motor seeing as HOW an MLS HG functions and that L motors when boosted work better with lower CR and higher boost levels.
03-09-2010, 10:15 AM
#23
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did some long block research
VG30ET = 392lbs from what one person weighed, noo accessories at all just block and head
L24 with carbs otherwise the same = 346lbs
now with that knowledge a L28ET shouldn't weigh more than 400lbs if so not much
and then also gotta add the manifold and turbo weights on the VG motor, so hoov you fail :P the VG is a heavy block, always has been.
VG30ET = 392lbs from what one person weighed, noo accessories at all just block and head
L24 with carbs otherwise the same = 346lbs
now with that knowledge a L28ET shouldn't weigh more than 400lbs if so not much
and then also gotta add the manifold and turbo weights on the VG motor, so hoov you fail :P the VG is a heavy block, always has been.
03-09-2010, 11:17 AM
#24
I would like the 1mm just for the lil extra bit of CR. I rarely run 14psi boost, usually 10-12psi, which would give just a bit more pull for daily driving.
03-09-2010, 01:06 PM
#25
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ahhh ic ic. well (even though this boost level wont be reached soon maybe end of summer if i get the right EFI setup in the car like MS or SDS) i plan on going into 20psi or maybe a bit more. it's a long term goal, but will be done. so i think the 2mm would be best suited for me unless i get even deeper dished lower CR pistons. which maybe i should. but that 1mm MLS is just kinda redic. anyone else make MLS HG's for our cars. be cool if cometic did.
