Hello everyone.
As it usually happens, my first post on a forum will most likely be very ignorant, and probably just beating a dead horse.

I have bought my first 280zx about a year and a half ago. Spent a bunch of time cleaning it up, de rusting, etc. At this point, the major body work, interior and suspension cleanup things are done.

The thing is, I don't really have a plan for the engine yet. And this lack of planning is starting to get in the way.

Now. I am not looking for 300+HP or anything big like that. I would be thrilled to get past 200. I think I just need to talk this out with a few people that really know their stuff and come up with a good direction.

As of now, I can think of three options:

1)Naturally Aspirated
Get intake, headers, exhaust.
Get the 240sx throttle body
Get the stage III camshaft
Possibly get the thinner 0.6mm head gasket.

2)Turbo engine swap.
Find a turbo engine, wiring harness, ecu.
Turn up the boost a little

3)Turbo custom
Find exhaust manifold, turbo, downpipe from a 280zxt.
Make custom piping. Keep boost low.
Possibly need turbo injectors and modified ECU/progressive FPR/ other management
Possibly an intercooler

Plan 1 seems to be very expensive, requires a lot of head work. And I don't know if it will get me to beyond 200 even after that.

Plan 2 has me looking for a rare engine, and engine of questionable quality. Aslo, I did an engine swap on my honda, and while that was fun, I am not ready to go through that again.

Plan 3 has a lot of people on this forum being vocal against it. (On the other hand, they all refer to high boost.) May become a nightmare hunting for parts. Fuel management may get tricky.

What do people think on this topic? Basically, which option would be cheaper, which option would be less work. Once again, not looking for crazy gains just want to get past 200HP.

Please forgive my ignorance. And thanks for any input.

 

Welcome to ZDriver!

This is a good read: https://www.zdriver.com/forums/280zx-performance-technical-79/l28-bored-3-0l-32152/

Don't get "too" discouraged, but it takes a lot to get the L28E (non-turbo) to 200hp. Yes, it's much easier to start w/ an L28ET turbo (not rare unless you live outside the US / Japan) from the beginning... but not everyone wants a turbo setup. Fuel management is not "tricky" as long as you have the money and computer / electrical skills.

 

Read, read, read and read some more. You're lucky because there is a TON of info for your car and engine. Sites like HybridZ are all about hybrid engine swaps but even there you'll find a lot of guys swap in the L28ET which came in the 280ZX Turbo. You can get 300rwhp from the stock bottom end with a proper turbo setup for less than a 200rwhp NA stroker.

 

See. I want to try and do this on a budget.
I have not read too much on HybridZ, but I have been reading this forum, and I get the feeling that all power threads get over the top quickly. The planned budgets on those threads start running up to 7k with some serious work on the internals.
I will keep reading up on this, but it is always nicer to just talk things out with people who know things.

I started my car tuning hobby with a Honda. And for my car there were basically 3 options:
1)Junkyard turbo setup, where you buy a custom exhaust manifold, and ecu and pretty much source the rest from other cars. You had to keep the boost low, but you would be able to do it for $1200-1500.

2)Brand new bolt on turbo kit. You would basically just buy the damn thing. And this would start at around $2000 and go up to infinity depending on how fancy you wanted to get.

3)Engine swap. Basically get an engine from a better Honda. This is what I went with on my car and the swap ended up costing me $2200 or so. Plus another $600 for tuning. I went with this option because it was the most reliable and had the most potential for the future.

Now with the Datsun, it is a little more tricky because there is more emotion involved on my part. It seems like going with the L28ET is the most sensible choice, but don't really want to deal with another swap, even if it does sound easier than what I had to do on the Honda.
I kind of had my hopes up about piecing together a turbo setup from various parts. And when I originally was reading a few forums prior to buy my car, things seemed pretty straight forward. When I read things now, a lot of people advise against this. NismoPick being one of the most vocal people against this. (I am not afraid of electrical work by the way, and I have seen threads on custom ECU builds to work with the turbo.)
I am a little wary of doing intensive internal work on the engine. But reading all this stuff against a junkyard turbo setup made me think that maybe I could just get away with a little cam work+injection+headers. This seems to not be the case. Purchasing a rebuilt head might be an option...

I guess I want to see what is the best I could do with a budget that is capped at $2000. (Keeping in mind that at this point I just don't really have a desire to do a whole engine swap myself) I will keep reading forums, but I would love to be able to get extra direction from other people.

**Edit: Hm. So from reading a bit on HybridZ, adding a turbo onto the stock L28E may be an ok option. But if I just find a donor car, then it makes more sense just to swap in the whole thing. If I only find parts, I could look for a turbo from 300zx which it water cooled and therefore easier to deal with. But then I need the MegaSquirt ecu system and that looks like a pain in the *** to deal with. I guess an ECU from the turbo may work too.

 

your best bet is to buy a crashed or rusted turbo 280zx and swap over what you need the L28et is already pushing about 180 to the flywheel but im not sure if your goal is whp or flywheel. and all you would be needing is an intercooler and boost controler and you should be able to push it past the 200 hp mark no problem. and where you located? i know of a 280zx turbo that is for sale for 1000 cash and it is decent.

 

I live in North Carolina.
And one reason I don't want to do an engine swap, is because I have nowhere to do it. I did the swap on my Honda in the back of my apartment. And I did not have to deal with a parts car.

Unless I can do this over a weekend or two I am really not looking forward to a swap.

 

If you are unable to pull the motor, then you are limited to basic upgrades... yes, you can slap on a turbo... all you would really need is:

-a turbo manifold or fab your own exhaust mount from the stock n/a manifold,
-plumb oil in & dump
-plumb intake & exhaust downpipe

Of course, running stock n/a injectors on a stock n/a ecu, on a higher CR, will really limit your potential. You could probably run 5psi boost... but for who knows how long...


If you don't want to do that, throw in a mild cam, header, ignition, 60mm TB, and be satisfied.

 

It feels like you are oversimplifying this.
Well, why wouldn't I be able to get a better ECU and injectors?
And wouldn't an intercooler be pretty much required?

And as far as the na build, from what I read, I really need a better ECU as well to actually see anything. Would a thinner head gasket do anything?

 

Indeed... I simplified because you keep asking for a "simple" and "cheap" solution.

This is a fair statement:

Because piecing together a turbo motor will take more time, money, and effort than just finding a complete L28ET to start with.

My "copy and paste" from previous similar discussions:

Lastly, yes, you would need bigger cc injectors, and an ecu to control them... neither of which are cheap. Also, a thinner hg will up the CR a lil bit... probably not enough to make a head gasket job worth the tear down.

 

Nismo, I saw that list of yours already.

You say you could get a L28ET for $500 bucks? Maybe I don't know where to search but I could not find one for that price anywhere near.
The best I could do is find an engine at a junkyard 200 miles away using car-part.com. And they wanted 500 just for the engine. Would probably hike the price up if I was to ask for the wiring and ECU. Craigslist, or e-bay did not have anything near me that was not several grand.

Do you think I can get that swap done for less than $2000 if I go with a show instead of doing the work myself? Or do you think the swap can be done by me in two weekends worth of work?

Is MegaSquirt the cheapest ECU to go with that is tunable? And are tuning shops aware of it, or am I completely on my own if I go with it?

 

Join your local Datsun club. You have a great chance of finding a swap and someone to help you do the swap. I picked up my swap for $500 as well but I had to travel a bit and search for a while to get it. That was for the complete L28ET swap - L28ET, harness, AFM, ECU, etc. Even if you paid double that I can't imagine a shop charging you $1000 to pull the old engine and put the new one in, hook up the AFM, take the two screws holding the ECU in an pulling the new harness through the firewall....

 

Hm. Well a junkyard 140miles away has an engine listed and claim it runs well costing $450. I bet they will charge me more if I want the harness and ECU.
I will see what they say on Monday. And I will see if a shop will give me a reasonable quote too.
Maybe I can go with the swap. There is no rush after all, I can keep looking around.

 

There is probably a car club as well in your town that you could join. I know ours has a four car bay with lifts, tools and at least one journey man mechanic. Lots of help there too. That would be a good way to do it yourself with some help.

 

Yeah. I found a Z club in the area. Their forums don't seem to be very lively though. Maybe I will drop by their monthly meeting or something.

I don't know about a club shop. But I think there is a shop nearby where you can rent a car bay. But I think in that case I would rather just talk to a buddy of mine and convince him to let me do it in his house. I'll just bribe him with beer and possibly the idea of doing a swap would work as a bribe too.

Transporting the new engine 100miles is also something to figure out cheaply.

Do you think it would fit in a back of an SUV or mini van? I am not sure I can borrow a truck. Might have to rent one.


On a nice note. I was driving the Z around since the weather was nice and finally got to push the engine nicely after a light tuneup. It's really fun driving it when the injectors don't leak and the the electricals are fine.
But the engine is so different than what I am used to. On the Honda, if you want to go fast you have to keep the RPM high (above 5K), it's really peaky. The 280zx has tons of grunt in the mid range though. I get pleasantly surprised every time I step on the gas.
I guess it's time to practice and upgrade that gasket that goes in between the front seat and the steering wheel.

 

Damn junkyards! They just keep the engine block, and maybe the turbo.
None of them have wiring or the ECU. Looks like I will need a parts car.

...Am I correct in thinking that I can also use the wiring and ECU from a Z31 turbo? The 300zx turbo?

 

Yes, you can use a Z31T ecu & efi harness... you have to mod the injector harness, but that's about it.

FYI...

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/cto/2334471569.html

http://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/pts/2304741764.html

http://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/ctd/2293697843.html

 

Hm. That's a good point. I failed to check Winston Salem Craigslist.

 

What do you think about this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Datsu...item20b92ce562

I can't source the whole car right now. Can't find a new listing for one. But as I keep looking, I found this on e-bay.

It's sounds like a pretty complete kit. ... except perhpaps some of the piping. I should probably get an intercooler just to keep the air cold since my internals are weaker. And keep the boost low.

I thing the buy it now price is maybe a bit too much, but perhaps I can try and bid on it for less.

Thoughts? Opinions?
Thanks.

 

I was about to say I might be able to grab the manifold from my other engine, but shipping it would be insane. Plus I don't have all the parts that the ebay listing has (spare)

As far as an intercooler, for your weaker internals, yes, I would get one, even if you had the F54/P90/Dished Pistons, I would say get one

Also, do not "buy" that kit "Now". Sure, for the bidding price, getting everything at once would be great (I've been scouring for months to replace parts that have gotten old), and for that shipping price, he must work for UPS and is delivering it himself

I think that stock, with my intercooler, my ZxT was at like... 190, tops, the guy I bought it from (Who was a TOTAL D-bag) was like "Yeah man, 400+ to the wheels". Lies.

Can't wait to get it running again to rape my friends Supra =D

 

Cool Thanks for the input. He will probably ship it USPS parcel post or something. I shipped pretty heavy stuff by USPS for cheap.

I will search around a bit and probably find the answer. But if people don't mind spoon feeding me this a bit. What's the deal with the P90 head? Why is it significant for the turbo? ***Edit: Okay Xenon has the writeup on the heads. P90=more volume, lower compression, better flow and square exhaust ports. This is opposed to circular/diamond exhaust ports on the NA head. Which is only a bit of a problem for the exhaust manifold. Am I correct?

Also what about playing with the head-gaskets? 0.6mm vs 1mm vs 2mm? Is it important, or not on the scale of upgrades I am talking about? ***Edit2: Xenon also has a calculator for this. But I have no feel what a small difference in compression translates to.

And what about going with the z31 ecu? Is it just for power and efficiency? Or would it make a difference in keeping my engine safe with that setup? What I mean, is should I get it now, or not worry about it yet?