thxone

Well I sat down for a while, thought about what I "really" wanted my car to do and what is monitarily feasable and economicaly viable. I have come up with a final solution. Gone are the pipe dreams of a V8 and gone is the idea of the "3.1L Stroked and Turboed L28ET". Also gone will be my EFI. After talking with a guy at Arizona Z car.com I have decided to do this:

1. Purchase the 4 barrel carburator intake manifold from Arizona Z Car

2. Purchase a Header

3. Locate a T5 tranny

4. R200 rear hopefully an LSD

5. Upgrade my brakes

6. Tokico shocks and springs

7. Custom make a cold air intake tube with K&N filter

8. Alot of time and effort on my part

I figure by doing this I will have nothing but the bare essentials to make my Z run and run hard without having to fool around with the EFI problems and expenses that come from 25 year old things. It's time to go old school...in a way I guess. Also, eventually when I get a cam for the car all I will have to do is rejet the carb...way cheaper than replacing injectors. This is going to be involved and a little bit of a pain to do but once it is done no more hassles. To tell the truth I am a little excited to finally have a clear game plan that is "do-able". Who really "needs" much more than 145hp anyway? I think just having a 5 speed again will be fun enough.

NismoPick

dude... come on... do we need to re-live this old thread? ( https://www.zdriver.com/forums/280zx-performance-technical-79/280zx-4-barrel-conversion-18849/ ) Do I need to drive to FL to smack some sense into ya?

thxone

Yeah one of my problems is I don't want to replace old parts with old parts...literally to feel good about keeping the stock EFI I would have to pull the entire wire harness out of the car and replace all the wireing and connectors with brand new, better quality stuff. Not that I couldn't do that, I have made harnesses before when I was a stereo instaler. But this is a piece of mind thing.

This may be a bad idea but then again it may work out the way I want it to. I will not know unless I try it for myself. If it turns out bad then this is something I can mark up as experience. I am not afraid of carbs, in fact 90% of the cars I have worked on since I started messing with cars had carbs on them...thats why I ask so many questions about the FI setups, I am not as familiar with it. I still have books put away on tuning and rebuilding carbs so I have a hand up already in that respect.

All the negativity about the carb setup is just encouraging me to do it. I don't mean that in a bad way but if I do this and I am able to get a 4 barrel carb setup tuned properly and running strong then I will be able to help others by answering questions if they so choose to go this route. You have to admit, there is a lot of negative responces to the 4 barrel setup and it could be a combination of prejudice/preference, lack of knowlege, bad experences or whatever has made one not like or prefer carbs. Its like saying hey I think I will take this hot 21 year old woman out over that hot 30 year old woman. If you want the 21 year old woman (FI) to perform better you are gonna have to spend more money to tune her where as the 30 year old woman (carb) may just need some fine tuning with the twist of a screw to get her right.

Basically I am willing to do this for myself and others in hopes of expanding some knowlege, busting some miths, changing some opinions or just making myself look like an *** if it goes south. So Nismo, if it does end up not working out I will invite you here and will take a beating if it will knock some sense into me...BUT, if it works...then you can come here and buy me a beer.

I bet if my name was in blue, I wouldn't have to take a beating though.

entropy31

how do you figure?

thxone

lol meaning if I was a sight supporter I might not have to get beat up...physicaly by NismoPick for my crime against the Z's for wanting to do the Carburator thing..lol

entropy31

nah, last i checked, pick's name is still black too. it's us red name guys you dont want to tick off .

FubarI33t

umm i hate to say this. But after my current ECU and injector problmes. I miyself am goin to to go with the 4 barrel Carb conversion as well. I know all of ya will probly DisOwn me now. But the carb conversion is just temp, to get my car driveable so i can Enjoy my Z already. I'll be having a L28E in the shop being built up with Megasqurt. (pissst, Lonewolf intake, Arizona Zcar Tuned Header, bigger injector's, Cam, 3.0,or 3.1Stroker, and maby even a 5 speed.

CraigS

I think its cool youre going to carb, seems logical if something isnt working it should be torn out lit on fire and replaced with something you can understand, if you want to be ultra super cool you would get a dyno test and show off some new #.

thxone

But what if you like the carb setup?? You could still do a big cam, big bore 3.1L with a 5 speed.

thxone

Thats a good idea, even a before and after dyno....and if it work out in the Carbs favor, maybe more people would at least consider it.

CraigS

If it has a significant increase I would take a serious look into it! Its also an easier alternative to FI, tunabiliy atleast.

thxone

I will admit there are pros and cons to both setups. It is way easier to turbo an FI system over a carb system for sure and turbos should be left ti fuel injection. but if you are not wanting to turbo a car like myself then to me it is an easier way of doing things.

jfairladyz

Think about it and all that fuel injection is, is a more efficient electronically controlled version of a carburetor setup. You've still got the mechanically controlled (on most cars) throttle. Fuel is now electronically controlled via fuel injectors. Only now instead of relying on a fixed-mechanical setup, a computer controls how much fuel to inject which it determines by taking into account whats actually going on at that very moment. A computer that can compensate for any situation. And with todays gas prices I'll take the efficency of fuel injection. And I can still have performance when I want to drive my Z like it's meant to be driven. You have to choose or compromise with carbs: do you want fuel efficiency or performance? Or a mediocre compromise of both? With fuel injection, its one of those rare instances in life where you get to have your cake and eat it too. MegaSquirt would most likely cost less money to convert too and is simple to setup and you get all the benefits of FI.

FubarI33t

I have often though of removin my engine. build it up in corner and look for a nice S30 body. True the S130 is more areodynamic. but i like the looks of a S30. smaller, lighter, and give off that near true since of a 2 seater. If not a S30 body. i know of qa old Fiat slick top thart's smaller then the S30. and has the motor bay room for a L28E. My 280ZX needs alot fo work. Sure the body is in good conidtion. but the air and heat don't work. the injector's don't work. It's bigg Heavy, Auto, and Heavy.

jfairladyz

thats cause you've got the 2+2 fubar. The 2 seater isn't all that heavy at all. The 280Z is just as heavy as the 280zx. The 2+2 S30 is actually heavier then the S130 2+2. The 240Z and the early 260Z are the only S30's that offer the weight advantage. But at the same time they didnt have any of the creature comforts found in the S130.

WildmaN

Hey thxone, if that is what you want to do. I wont flame you for it, if it works out, then props to you man. Keep us updated on the operation, and I wish you the best of luck.

thxone

Your passion is compelling and your argument is valid to a point. I will say that a two barrel carb is a waste of time, but with the right 4 bbl carb it can be equal to the stock ZX EFI and in most cases better if set up "properly". You have two primary Jets/venturies that supply fuel under normal driving conditions. When engine load increases and vucuum acts on the secondaries to open them allowing the necessary increased A/F mixture to enter, then it effectively will do near the same thing as the ECM controlled FI without the need for the computer or wiring and sensors. You have to understand I am not talking about just slapping the carb on the car and calling it done. There is still a right way to do things even when it comes to carbs like taking into account the volume of the intake runners and the size of the combustion chambers and various other things to determine the propper sized carb to use. The timing and A/F ratio still needs to be correct.

Yes the Megasquirt is probably a great alternative to the stock fuel injection, batch fire is not that good but it works and I am sure Megasquirt system is better but you still have a computer, wiring and sensors...more to troubleshoot if something goes wrong. Carbs have been around since near the begining and for good reason just as FI came to be, because it is newer and better technology. But that does not mean carbs wont do the same job when "properly" tuned and setup. I belive a carb can be setup to run better than the stock 1982 EFI on my Z and maybe somewhat close to what the Megasquirt can do though the MS is a better setup...I will conced that.

Now the fuel economy...under normal driving conditions when only the often smaller primarys are used it should be equal to or better than the stock FI, only when the often larger secondaries open will the fuel consumption be greater dropping the MPG. Now if I am opening my secondaries then I am not worried about economy I want the performance..which I would have. So you could, if driving normal, still have economy but have the performance when you want. Not to mention with all the reduced electrical load your lights will be brighter and your ALT may last longer. It makes sense if you are willing to accept that it can be done with acceptable results. I am not trying to tell people they should drop their EFI, it's a good system but I know for me this can work well. Would you agree I have made some good, valid points?

silvrhand

Yes,

You have made some valid points but it really seems to come down that you are more comfortable with carbs than EFI. If you are more comfortable with going thtat route then it's time for you to do that.

EFI though is substantially better than carb setups in the long run though, hence the reason you don't ever see them around anymore

thxone

uuuggg, my fingers hurt from all this typing. It is true I am more comfortable with carbs but only because I am not as educated on the FI. But still I think it would be nice to have one of a few properly running, aftermarket carbed ZX's. S130's aren't the fastest things out there nor do I want mine to be...but they sure look good.

snwbrderphat540

dont people with all motor honda's usually go carbureator?

thxone

Hmmm, not sure. What does your Honda have on it?

NismoPick

Um nope... I know this is a side note for this thread, but if carbs put out more hp, and were more efficient that fuel injection, car manufacturers would still be using carbs today (unless we're living the 1984 life & everything we know is lies )

Do you see Vipers, Porsches, Lambos, Corvettes, Mustangs, Ferarris, etc, with carbs these days?


Anyway, Thxone: if carbs is your thang, and you're not looking for high hp, go for it! There seems to be a few carb'd S130 owners on the intrawebnet that are happy w/ that setup... so hey, do ya thang!

thxone

This would be a double side note: You are 100% correct..... ... . ... . . However, With "todays" tecnology carbs are W A Y better then they use to be and should not have a problem out doing the old nissan 280zx FI...but todays FI is way better than both. I will do what I must then you can owe me a beer NismoPick I will collect that beer at the next MSA show!!!

snwbrderphat540

i have honestly neve owned a honda..i must say...drove a few...not to mush fun...sept onw....it was fun...turbo shough......whell hopped through third unfortunatly......otherwise...i swore most poel that wen tall motor on there hondas useually went carb......oh well.. i can be wrong sometimes.

frank280zx

in my book i will not touch a carb witha 10 feet pole .. however if it floats your boat .. A megasquirt set can be bough with wiring harness on ebay for round 300 bucks ... i would go for that .. but that is just me