iluvJDM

hey guys just wondering if a RB or SR has ever been swapped into a 280ZX by anyone in the US. I see S30s left and right with this swap but never a 280ZX, is there a reason for this? Because this swap is looking very good to me since I still cant find a L28ET anywhere on the east coast

snwbrderphat540

RB's yes very many search on here powerhungry bill has done a few for some people, as for SR im sure there have but i havent seen any either yet. go SR the are easier to work on easier to find parts for and lighter and still make near the same power on the stock internals and such. plus they are cheaper to buy than RB's as well and im sure a bit easier to swap in

NismoPick

Yep... ICICE9 has pics of several. I'm not sure if they were USA market 280zx's, but it's been done many times.

frank280zx

I really dont think the swapping would be much harder, as custom stuff will have to be made in either case..
However i do not agree on an sr n an s130 .. in a s30 ( and i mean early!!! s30) i can see it, given you should get a carbon hood hatch and fpr fenders etc .. weight will be your enemy!
A SR is a 4 banger so missing the bottom end torque for the heavier 280z (s30) and s130's in my book.
Remember on the street torque is king!!
I have seen a couple zx's over at hybrid.. i don't know they might be auzzies though! If you decide to do it decide how much power you want. .if it isn't much more than say 450 orso to the wheels use a RB25 as it is allot cheaper!!

chinesekid

my friend has a sr in a s30.. im thinking about going sr too... the way i see it... sr is much cheaper, easy to find parts for and stock for stock, i think sr is more better then an rb... but if you say you lose torque, w/ the power it makes and how light it is.. for power to weight ratio.. it would be more then an L28 rite?
just a question, dont get mad if wrong or something. hahaha im just asking

veyenyl

Here you go




I think a SR20det with a v-mount radiator/IC would be the business.

iluvJDM

Thanks for the replies guys! yeah i don't plan on making crazy power, hell a stock RB25 would make me happy, much better than my N/A L28! But one reason im edging towards the SR is that not only is a S14 blacktop cheaper than a RB25, its lighter and there is a huge aftermarket for it in the states now! I can get parts for it on a local 240 forum! I dont know, money is a major issue in this and the sad thing is im gonna have to have a shop do it for me...Im so ashamed! lol At least i could have done the L28ET swap at home...

veyenyl: is that by someone in the US? looks like they spent alot money, but me...ill be happy with a stock SR or RB.

RodMoyes

lww

You crack me up Rod!

NismoPick

Batting a mule upsidedown? I know gets it?! es dis some kindof new inglish sayings?

Matt K

Ummm....yeah, I'm going to have to go ahead & disagree with you on that.




The stock weight of a 180SX/Silvia isn't much different than a 280ZX...within 0-200 lbs depending on options on either car. Another point to ponder is that an SR20DET will outrun an RB20DET in similar weight cars...seen it a hundred times back in Japan. Obviously it's a different matter with the RB25DET, but that engine has notoriously bad pistons & doesn't last under higher boost levels without some internal mods (thick headgasket & good tune MINIMUM!) not to mention the stock injectors are on the ragged edge even with a stock turbo at stock boost levels. If you think an SR has no torque or response, you need to think again. I never lost the holeshot to any car (street racing) in Okinawa with my 180SX (even when it was just a bolt on car), even to GTR's & Supras. If they had a lot more power than me, they'd catch up sometime after ~ 1/8 mile & pulled me at the end of the 1/4.

Here's what mine ended up like...522 rwhp. I'm in the process of swapping everything into my USDM 240SX now.

Old 180





240 Project

frank280zx

If you think an SR has no torque or response, you need to think again

Well i did not say that. it just has a different torque response! I happened to have owned a sr20 s13 And given for what it is it is a great car and i love em .. But the torque's feel isnt there and it is there at higher numbers of rpm making the behavior of these engines more peaky
You can disagree on my there but this is from my experience Torque needs displacement.. much like the torque feel that a v8 gives over a l6 you have that same miss between the sr and the RB
Then again im more a road racer not a qauter mile racer .. and in that case ( roadracing) there might be something to say for a lighter mid bay concept.. however ill stick with my torque feel comment from experience!
In a 1/4 or 1/8 a rb gtr will fight its weight off the line more than a 180SX

however this is personal opinion.. next to that a 4 banger is a downgrade in my book. not insulting anyone i just feel that way.

snwbrderphat540

would agree ^^^^ unless using a RB26 then you just got a nice motor all around met with a 25 tranny, but, as for parts availability and the actual cost of motor and trans youll be saving a good amount in teh SR that is my only reason for wanting to do it now instead of an RB. i wanted to put a 4G64 in because they are HELLA strong motor with cheap cheap parts since teh motor has been around forever, but after seeing the locations of the mounts on teh motor i have to change my mind. plus id rather keep it all nissan.

chinesekid

i know everybody say its a "downgrade" to go back down to an sr or a 4 banger but how would it be a downgrade when its pushing more hp/torque then a stock l28te w/ 2 less cylinder? just curious on what you guys think... but i wish i can go w/ an rb26.. just low on cash rite now.. and i can get an sr for a decent price.. ahaha

not trying to insulting anybody or anything, just asking

frank280zx

What numbers are you looking for ? i mean an l28 can make 400/500hp all day long..( or in the 600 as recently shown by tim and jeff!) in japan they have been ding it since the 80's ! Given this would set you back roughly 4k

Heat Rave R

On another plus, I would imagine that an SR20 install would be more gas efficient (if anyone cares ^^).

260DET

VG30ET? Lighter than a RB25DET, well the VG30E is lighter than the L28E anyway.

rb250zx

I own a 82 280zx, Its currently in the shop right now getting an RB25DET thrown under the hood, as far as hp goes I dont think your gonna beat it. But eh SR20DET is going to be a bit easier to get parts for, but im looking to build about 650-700 RWPH, you might be able to do that with an SR20 but I bet i hit the poneys alot cheaper than i would with the SR20 + how you gonna take a Car with a 6 cylindar History and knock it down to a 4.... I dont know at least its still a nissan motor

Matt K

For the money you'll spend making the RB25 able to support 650-700 rwhp, you'd be better off with an RB26, or better yet a 1 or 2JZ. The Toyota motors actually can take that kind of abuse on a completely stock internal motor. The RB25 can't compare with its poor head & intake design & even poorer pistons. I love Nissan, but Toyota got their inline sixes right the first time!

I do think it makes more sense to use an SR due to cost & weight, as well as bang for the buck. Most people talk about how much they want to make, but never can afford to go much over 300 hp once it comes down to it. If you could truly make a complete L28 with 600 hp for only $4000 for everything, Rebello would be out of business...The guy's turbo & standalone setup cost that much alone...

Look at how many Z guys have L28ET's & see how many are making over 300hp if it's so cheap & easy...it's pretty much the cheapest way to do it in a Z or ZX, but people balk at the standalone cost/complexity & insist on using a 25 year old turbo (again, mostly due to cost), when newer turbos are MUCH more efficient. My point is that most of the people in the Z world aren't really going to put the money into their cars where it will make a real performance difference anyways & even a stock SR is plenty of motor for someone who's upgrading from a 100rwhp L28E. One of my good friends that I was stationed at in Okinawa (now in San Diego) has an SR in his 73 with a stock motor/turbo (tuned very well with SDS) & has no problems beating M3's, Evo's, STI's & most of the other "fast" street cars out there.

thxone

I agree with you on that but we all have to have dreams to keep us going and things we wish we could do...I am grounded in reality somewhat to the fact that it does take alot of money to make alot of HP which is one of the reasons I am shooting for 250whp...well within my grasp monetarily and in reality. I would LOVE to have 500whp...but ehhh, I don't race and I don't need bragging rites, plus gas cost, tires cost, engine parts cost if they break....you see what I mean. I just want a cool looking car with some pull that will keep me out in front of traffic and still be reliable.....of course the occasional light to light run will happen.

frank280zx

People in the z world that are looking into swapping will put the money down.Swaps are not cheap!. agreed not everybody.. but walk around at msa and see that there are people out there that do put there $ where their mouth is!
I agree on a turbo costing a good 1000 but a stand alone wont cost more than 400 in the form of magasquirt.. and that system is as good as you need
SDS in my opinion sucks compared to it ( yes i have run both!!)
I got lucky that i know some people that hooked me up with a good turbo etc. But over 400 for under 4K is easily possible, as long as you have aces to a good machine shop and are a resourceful guy

Bleach

Mr Luv JDM says he's ok with a stock SR20DET. That is rated at what... 210hp? compared to 180hp in an L28? If all you want is about 210hp, just drop a freakin L28 turbo in there for a lousy $500 or so and turn up the boost to 9psi with no intercooler. EZ 200whp...

the instant torque repsonse you get is quite a bit different on a 4-cyl, and even going from an NA L28 to a turbo L28 there is quite a loss in torque. I'm not talking about revving it up and slipping the clutch so you have boost. Just driving around and all of a sudden you floor it...
RB20DET are cheap right now. Cheaper than an SR20DET and for the reasons mentioned but they are an inline six and I like the 'look' better under the long hood of a Z.

If you get an SR20DET, put it in a Z31!!! LOL

Also, it was said the RB25DET is not good for high boost levels. Can you give examples of what is considered high? Some people think 16+psi others would say high is above 20psi. Just curious.

Matt K

I've known quite a few guys who tried to crank up the boost on stock RB25's (stock turbo, injectors, ecu) & found out the hard way when they broke the ringlands on their pistons at only 1.0 bar boost (~15 psi). True, good tuning with proper fuel management goes a LONG way at keeping it more reliable, but as I said before the pistons are not noted for their strength.

I have a buddy (who owns my old 180sx body now) with a built 25 putting out ~600 HP with a T-04Z who's running stock pistons still, albeit with a heavily ported head, thick headgasket, big solid lift cams, handbuilt intake manifold, huge injectors & a well-tuned Power FC. He's gone through 4 25's in the last 2 1/2 years, even with good tuning & a less extreme setup. One contributing factor is the head & especially intake design are very poor. The intake design causes one cylinder (I forgot which #) to run substantially leaner than the rest (this is true for ALL RB's, even the 26) which added to the weak 25 pistons & usual lack of good tuning causes that cylinder to run hotter, detonate & eat the piston. A real intake manifold (not the Greddy, still runs lean) goes a long way to helping, as well as using the 26 head over the 25 head. If you spend a lot of time on any of the Skyline forums, you'll notice the guys who melt a piston always have the same one go bad...

As far as the L28ET having an advantage over the SR...having 10 years of development time between the two definately pushes the advantage to the SR, with crossflow DOHC, better turbo technology & engine management, a better aftermarket & pretty good design (except the damn valvetrain). Crank up the INTERCOOLED boost to the same level on the SR & it makes more power than the L28ET, as it's a more efficient design...even if the ET has an intercooler. The L28 is old school tech & has a hard time competing with newer technology engines. Not that it's bad, just dated.

The hell with an RB20 though! I've known 2 decent 20 equipped cars & they had a LOT of money & parts to do it. An SR WILL outperform an RB20 with all things being equal...I know it doesn't make sense to many of you, but it's been proven time & again. One nice thing about the RB20 is it can rev a LOT higher! It needs this however to make the power...

I am a bit biased towards the SR, as I've had great luck & success with mine over the last 5 years...made 300 rwhp with completely stock engine with bolt on actuated S15 (GT28R) turbo & 550's with Z32 mafs...made 390 rwhp at 21 PSI with an internally actuated (GT2876R) stock internal engine, made 522 at 26 PSI with my Full-Race GT3567R externally gated setup on a stock internal SR. I've got another one waiting for the day the stock internal motor lets go that's already built up with fully worked & ported head, solid lift cams, forged pistons & rods, as well as everything else being new. I'm shooting for 650 rwhp on this one...Still need to hook up my methanol/water injection though...

NismoPick

We all have varying opinions on this matter... but here's a fact:

Dropping a 4cyl into a Z shows that you like rice more than a Z.

Dropping a Chevy V8 into a Z shows that you will bastardize anything sacred.

Dropping a JZ motor into a Z shows you appreciate Japanese engineering, but not a Z.

Dropping an RB motor into Z shows that you appreciate Japanese engineering, and a Nissan.

Yada yada yada... I'm not saying these are BAD things... not entirely anyway.

Bleach

I hear that. The stock ECU sucks on the L28et... but he only wants 210hp. Complete SR swaps in most any car run you about $5-6000 (including parts) and you've got about 200hp.

$500 or less on the L28, drops right in over the weekend and you're about there. Plus you have a stock looking engine. You can tweak it with no (or very little) money input needed and get that extra 20hp or so is all I was saying. Or what if you did the L28 swap and had a shop put $5000 into that engine... costwise, compare that to a stock SR20DET (but you did have to get your hands dirty for 3 days while you put your own engine in)

I bought my turbo parts car for 500 and sold over $500 in unused parts. But maybe money is no object for this guy....

speaking of money, there is a big cost difference between an RB25 and RB26. Nobody seems to mention that. Its not like its just another couple hundred bucks