Sensors #2 :(
09-29-2005, 05:36 PM
#51
Head Muckraker
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 9,221
If it did fall into the oil pan it won't be a problem. The pick-up screen will prevent it from getting into the oiling system beyond the pan.
After going back and reading the entire thread, I'm almost certain it's the ground for the ECU.
The chance of you having two ECU's with exactly the same intermittent problem is lower than Bleach's chances of ever successfully messing with my post count again!
These ECU's fail in very few ways. 99.999% of the time, they simple stop working entirely. That's why there is only one troubleshooting option in the manuals. When they go, they go completely and forever. Not intermittently.
They are also EXTREMELY sensitive to voltage fluctuations. They don't tolerate them at all. Because of that, any corrosion on the connectors are anywhere in the circuit will cause un-predictable results.
My next step would be to take sand paper to every connector and junction on the ECU power and ground wires including the final ground on the car. I have also used a dremel tool with a wire brush wheel to clean these contacts. As you clean one contact, seal it with dielectric grease, RadioShack carries it. It makes quick work on the part and you can watch the corrosion and/or rust get scraped away.
Also, thoroughly clean the battery terminals and battery wire connectors. Apollo had a problem with his red ZX where it wouldn't start and he spent several days working on it. I even brought my Multi-meter over and we checked out his connections. Everything read a nice 12v on the meter, but when he tried to start it, it would just click and then require an ECU reset. After changing the starter in an unsuccessful attempt to fix it, he finally pulled the battery cables and they were corroded a long way into the insulation.
So badly that it couldn't hold the amperage needed to turn the starter. This corrosion was completely invisible until he stripped the insulation off the first inch of the battery cable and discovered it. It was corroded so far into the length of the wire that I think he just completely replaced them. This is not the same as your problem, but is an illustration of how pervasive the corrosion on these old cars can be and is the source of most electrical 'gremlins'.
LWW
After going back and reading the entire thread, I'm almost certain it's the ground for the ECU.
The chance of you having two ECU's with exactly the same intermittent problem is lower than Bleach's chances of ever successfully messing with my post count again!
These ECU's fail in very few ways. 99.999% of the time, they simple stop working entirely. That's why there is only one troubleshooting option in the manuals. When they go, they go completely and forever. Not intermittently.
They are also EXTREMELY sensitive to voltage fluctuations. They don't tolerate them at all. Because of that, any corrosion on the connectors are anywhere in the circuit will cause un-predictable results.
My next step would be to take sand paper to every connector and junction on the ECU power and ground wires including the final ground on the car. I have also used a dremel tool with a wire brush wheel to clean these contacts. As you clean one contact, seal it with dielectric grease, RadioShack carries it. It makes quick work on the part and you can watch the corrosion and/or rust get scraped away.
Also, thoroughly clean the battery terminals and battery wire connectors. Apollo had a problem with his red ZX where it wouldn't start and he spent several days working on it. I even brought my Multi-meter over and we checked out his connections. Everything read a nice 12v on the meter, but when he tried to start it, it would just click and then require an ECU reset. After changing the starter in an unsuccessful attempt to fix it, he finally pulled the battery cables and they were corroded a long way into the insulation.
So badly that it couldn't hold the amperage needed to turn the starter. This corrosion was completely invisible until he stripped the insulation off the first inch of the battery cable and discovered it. It was corroded so far into the length of the wire that I think he just completely replaced them. This is not the same as your problem, but is an illustration of how pervasive the corrosion on these old cars can be and is the source of most electrical 'gremlins'.
LWW
09-29-2005, 06:19 PM
#53
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: squwamton
Posts: 1,046
THANK VERY MUCH LWW for your Help .....I WILL GO THOUGH AND CHECK EVERY CONNECTION AGAIN JUST TO BE SAFE 
....I WILL CLEAN THEM ALL UP 
.....I STILL WOULD LIKE TO FIND A NEW ...AFM ...TPS .... AND HARMONIC BALNACER....AFTER I CHANGE THESE PARTS I WILL HAVE JUST ABOUT CHANGED EVERYTHING.......WELL HARMONIC BALNACER FRIST AND ON TO THE OTHERS AS SOON AS I GET IT BACK UP TO THE RUNNING ZONE.... I WILL START CLEANING ALL THE CONNECTIONG LEFT AND RIGHT ...
THANKS IWW ..............I HAVE A TWO PULLEY ONE ON THE 79 GOLD CAR ALSO BUT IT WONT HELP ME
............ BLEACH WHERE YOU AT 
I KNOW YOU GOT WHAT I NEED ...I GOT THE BIG $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$'S FOR YOU 
....I WILL CLEAN THEM ALL UP .....I STILL WOULD LIKE TO FIND A NEW ...AFM ...TPS .... AND HARMONIC BALNACER....AFTER I CHANGE THESE PARTS I WILL HAVE JUST ABOUT CHANGED EVERYTHING.......WELL HARMONIC BALNACER FRIST AND ON TO THE OTHERS AS SOON AS I GET IT BACK UP TO THE RUNNING ZONE.... I WILL START CLEANING ALL THE CONNECTIONG LEFT AND RIGHT ...THANKS IWW ..............I HAVE A TWO PULLEY ONE ON THE 79 GOLD CAR ALSO BUT IT WONT HELP ME
............ BLEACH WHERE YOU AT I KNOW YOU GOT WHAT I NEED ...I GOT THE BIG $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$'S FOR YOU
Last edited by lww; 09-29-2005 at 10:41 PM.
09-29-2005, 07:25 PM
#54
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5,485
Alright, the phone lines back on. We lost the phone yesterday and I'm on dial up. Anyways here's the deal on the grounds black. They're all over the place. Remember the two on the intake you cleaned. Ok well that's two down. Now you gotta find the rest. I believe there's like 5 or 6 of them scattered throughout the engine bay. As far as where they all are, I didn't get that far. As far as I could tell however, none of them terminated inside the passenger compartment. The entire harness ran through the firewall without any wires coming from it, so I'm assuming they're all in the engine compartment. I've got another question for you too: When she shuts off, does it do quick like someone flipped an off switch or is it slower like she's struggling for life and then quits? When you said the light on the ECU is still coming on, it takes very little voltage to power an LED. So while the light might be getting enough juice, it might not be enough to make the ECU function. THis can be a result of corrosion or just a loose connection. Hard to tell from here, but if you've got the time then you've got the meter. You can check resistance with the Ohmmeter function. As far as new TPS I can tell you how to test that as well to make sure it's in tip top condition. It wouldn't affect this situation, but if it's good then there's no point in replacing it. As far as a new AFM, come on man. I didn't do all that typing for nothing. Crack that sucker open
Have you tested the cylinder head temp sensor yet? I'm telling you right now, even though you say the car can run without it, if the signal from that sensor gets too far out of whack, it WILL shut the car off. And if it stays out of whack, the car WILL NOT start back up til the condition is eleviated. This could be a bad sensor sending a bad signal. Or it could be a bad wire or connection. The sensor operates on resistance, so if too much resistance is present because of a loose connector or a corroded wire then the ECU will shut the car down. I know this to be FACT. I've messed with it enough time to know. And as far as I can tell from fiddling, this is the ONLY sensor that will shut the ECU down the way it does. If the resistance hit's a certain point it will severly bog the engine down. If it just slightly eclipses that point, it will shut the car off. Does that not sound like your problem? And it's a very fine line between running sweet and not running at all. I've got a potentiometer inline with the cylinder head temp sensor and I can turn the **** about a quarter of the way without any effect on the way the car is running. Then within only a couple degrees of rotation the car will shut off. If I can manage to balance it in between those two points then the engine struggle for life til either I turn the **** to correct it or the car eventually just dies and wont start till I reset the ****.
Have you tested the cylinder head temp sensor yet? I'm telling you right now, even though you say the car can run without it, if the signal from that sensor gets too far out of whack, it WILL shut the car off. And if it stays out of whack, the car WILL NOT start back up til the condition is eleviated. This could be a bad sensor sending a bad signal. Or it could be a bad wire or connection. The sensor operates on resistance, so if too much resistance is present because of a loose connector or a corroded wire then the ECU will shut the car down. I know this to be FACT. I've messed with it enough time to know. And as far as I can tell from fiddling, this is the ONLY sensor that will shut the ECU down the way it does. If the resistance hit's a certain point it will severly bog the engine down. If it just slightly eclipses that point, it will shut the car off. Does that not sound like your problem? And it's a very fine line between running sweet and not running at all. I've got a potentiometer inline with the cylinder head temp sensor and I can turn the **** about a quarter of the way without any effect on the way the car is running. Then within only a couple degrees of rotation the car will shut off. If I can manage to balance it in between those two points then the engine struggle for life til either I turn the **** to correct it or the car eventually just dies and wont start till I reset the ****.
09-30-2005, 11:04 AM
#60
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: squwamton
Posts: 1,046
i orderd a new head temp sensor ...and a crank key ....bleach is sending the pulley this weekend {{THANKS BLEACH FOR SAVEING THE DAY AS ALWAYS}}....SO I SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET THIS BACK TOGETHER THIS NEXT WEEK SOMETIME
AS FOR THE WIRERING PROBLEM IAM GOING TO START CLEANING GROUNDS SOON
AS FOR THE WIRERING PROBLEM IAM GOING TO START CLEANING GROUNDS SOON
10-05-2005, 08:33 PM
#61
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: squwamton
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alright i have been back on it all day i got the front pulley all fixed .........i cleaned 8 grounds in all...it still wont fire over for a long time it sounded like it was going to and then it wounldnt ....i have messed with every thing trying to see if it will change or something.... but i have had no luck ....i used sand paper to clean up every connection i could tink of ....... i pulled #2 plug and cleaned it checked it for spark it had a nice bight flash ...i did that with #4 and it was the same ....there was fuel on the plugs and during that time it seemed like the injectors were fireing wrong and it sounded like it would all amost start ..the tach was moveing and i thought it was going to go but not....then all off a sudden it stoped the tach sat still and it seemed like no fuel was getting though.....i pulled my dissy and checked my sator gap ...it was 00.12mm like the book says it should be .....i dont know what to do i need help to fig this out 
i need a start to finsh what to check and do ...in order ...i will do as iam told ...
please help
i got the front pulley all fixed .........i cleaned 8 grounds in all...it still wont fire over for a long time it sounded like it was going to and then it wounldnt ....i have messed with every thing trying to see if it will change or something.... but i have had no luck ....i used sand paper to clean up every connection i could tink of ....... i pulled #2 plug and cleaned it checked it for spark it had a nice bight flash ...i did that with #4 and it was the same ....there was fuel on the plugs and during that time it seemed like the injectors were fireing wrong and it sounded like it would all amost start ..the tach was moveing and i thought it was going to go but not....then all off a sudden it stoped the tach sat still and it seemed like no fuel was getting though.....i pulled my dissy and checked my sator gap ...it was 00.12mm like the book says it should be .....i dont know what to do i need help to fig this out i need a start to finsh what to check and do ...in order ...i will do as iam told ...
please help
Last edited by 81 Black L28E; 10-05-2005 at 08:37 PM.
10-06-2005, 06:54 PM
#62
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5,485
Did you check the Dropping resistor for continuity? There should be 6 outputs and 1 or 2 inputs (the green wire might splice into two). All 6 outputs should have continuity with atleast one of the inputs. As far as which are which, The green wire from the relay is the input. I don't remember what the specs are for the continuity readings but if you get any that are open then you know you've got a problem. They should all be relatively close in readings. If any are far out of whack report it back here. If you're getting fuel and spark then theoretically the car should start. You're running out of parts to test. That's the problem. It's narrowing down to a wiring problem. And the only way to test for that is to get out there with that meter and chase it down. And alternative would be a new wiring harness. A possible culprit could be the ECU connector itself. That's a little hard to check though without diassembling it because of the way it's setup.
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