greyfox

Well the time has come for me to do some brake work, they feel weak, squeak, and the fluid is dirty. After extensive searching on the forums and the net in general I have decided to go with the Axxis metal master pads from buybrakes.com with stainless steel brake lines from MSA and some DOT 4 fluid from my local store. I drive my car around town and I take it into the canyons for some "spirited" driving. First please make any recommendations as to why or why not I should go with the above parts, and if you have a source with cheaper prices. We all need to save a buck or two right? So now on to the questions. And remember that I did do plenty of searches on the site. I got the general idea of the work, I just need clairification on the details.

First, jacking up the car.
I will jack the car up on the front crossmember and not the frame as recommended, should I place the jack stands at either end of, or will the frame rails withstand the weight of the car with some 2x4's? Reason I ask is because the cross member is not very long so I am a little worried about not supporting the car at either end, which seems a little better for weight distribution than having two stands relatively close to the middle. As for the rear, I will jack it up on the diff housing. Will the car be unstable doing this since I am jacking the car on a rounded object? And the stands go just in front of the housing where it is bolted to along with some wood from what I read. Is there a spot that is closer? It just seems so far foward of the tires to be putting the stands.

Second, the brake rotors.
Do I need them to be machined/replaced? As far as I know these rotors have been on the car a while. There are also two lines of scoring on the front left rotor that goes in a perfect circle, like a pebble that has been caught in the pad eating away at the surface of the rotor. I have also heard of people using sand paper (wtf?!?) to create a surface for the new brake pads. Is this something people really do? I just sounds kinda half-assed but then again I could be totally ignorant. Now on the plus side my car brakes straight, there is no shaking of the wheel and everything feels smooth. I have read that if this is the case then machining the rotors is not necessary and that they are in good shape. I would like definitive clairification.

Third, the brake lines and flushing/gravity bleeding. This one contains alot of questions pertaining to the order of the process, etc.
So as I said new lines and fluid are going in. Do I need to totally drain the system before I install the brake lines? In my mind this seems logical because I would not want fluid going all over while I frantically try to fit the new line.

Now as the flushing/bleeding goes it seems that Rod and others on the forum say that gravity bleeding is the way to go. I understand first I am supposed to get a turkey baster and suck out all the old fluid from the master cylinder, then I add new fluid in. I get a container, attach a hose to the bleeder and let it drain in until no air bubbles appear right? And this is a slow drip, not opening the bleeder valve all the way? Do I complete one brake at a time in the proper order, or do I jack up the whole car, and get 4 containers and let them all go at once?

Fourth and finally about the master cylinder and the order I need to do this stuff.
Do I completely drain the system, install new lines, install new pads, refill and bleed? I imagine that complete draining is done from the bleeder valves? I also know that I can't let the MC run dry, adding fluid as it drains/bleeds. When you do this does it mix the old and new together, effectively wasting your money as it drains into the container? How many containers of fluid do I need to do this? I suppose I am left with extra fluid in my containers due to the old coming out and the bleeding and adding of fluid?

As you can see I am quite confused on what to do with the fluid part of the work
I have never done a brake job on my own before but as long as these isues are cleared up then the rest I can handle on my own from my research. I have done many other car projects so I know I can handle this. As far as installing the pads goes I think I got that part ok. I am armed with my Haynes as well to follow the proper steps of pad installation.

I am very sorry for the long read, I tried to be detailed but short with my questions. Let's try to get some good, non-contradictory info here so that in the future when guys like myself search the forum on the brake issue nobody is left with any more questions.

Please feel free to add any extra tips and advice!
THANK YOU!!!

mikeatrpi

I loosen the lugs with the car on the ground. Then with the parking brake set, jack the front crossmember like you say. I put the stands on the lower suspension arms, turned a little so it rests evenly. Make sure its steady. Then I jack the back diff and put the stands on the sway bar brackets.

You'll end up draining most of the fluid anyway when you first open the brake lines. Make sure to use a flare nut wrench on the fittings, it will lessen your aggravation. I typically break the rubber fitting loose from the caliper, then remove the caliper from the bracket and lift out the pads. Then you can spin the caliper to unhook the rubber line. Fluid will drain out of the caliper and the the line at this time.

As for the rotors, I just did my fronts. I had to take the wheel bearings out and re-pack them, but I didn't replace them. I only replace rotors if they're "warped" or pitted or grooved... yours sound grooved. And the sandpaper trick is handy to scuff the pads if they were glazed. You probably don't need to do it now. Keep in mind new rotors have an oil on them, which you should clean off the contact surface with brake cleaner. And then when you drive them for the first time they'll smoke a wispy smoke, as the oil caught inside the vents burns off.

Hope that gets you started.

mikeatrpi

My front jack point:


Rear:

thxone

Jack it up by the crossmember, place jack stands under spring perches, one on each side, keep jack under the car, now you have 3 point supporting the car. Make sure you block behind the rear wheels to keep the car from rolling backwards.

Replace the rotors, yes, most likely you can have them turned but why do that when you can have brand new ones for a few dollars more. Get 4-6 cans of brake parts cleaner (one can per rotor and a few extra for final cleaning) and a container with tall sides and big enough to completely hold at least one brake rotor, you will need this to clean the rotors before you put them on the car. (They are coated from the factory to prevent rust and this coating must be removed) Get a bunch of disposable shop cloths to clean the parts with and yourself with.

If you are replacing all of that (Fluid and brake lines) then yes, you will need to replace ALL the fluid with new fluid. Over time brake fluid WILL wick water and turn a brownish color, this is no good. Never mix old with new. You are supposed to flush and change brake fluid every so often anyway due to the wicking nature of the brake fluid.

It will take alot of new fluid so buy more than you need (save your receipt, you can return what you don't use) The service manual says DOT3, I would assume DOT4 would be fine. This is from the Service Manual:
Bleed system in this order:
Master Cylinder---> Rear Wheels---> Front Wheels, Repeat until no air bubbles are present.
I would worry about bleeding the system after the car is back together and all the parts are clean (Rotors, Pads, brake lines)

When you buy a new master cylinder, it is dry so I don't see why you couldn't evacuate all the fluid then add the new fluid, if I was doing this I would remove all the old fluid first then add the new lines then clean and install new rotors and pads then add new fluid and bleed the system, cleaning anything I touch with brake parts cleaner as they are put on the car...it will be time consuming but it is safer to clean as you go. The bleeding of the lines and master cylinder...I wish i could tell you the best way to do this but I can't, I would google it or talk to a brake specialist on what to do. I don't want to tell you something and it be wrong and you drive it and wreck because your brakes failed.

This book should tell you how to properly bleed the system.

Good luck man and be safe, remember buy more than you need and return what you don't use.

flightforlife07

Dot 4 will work its just more expensive and not necessary.. the dot 3 will work fine and so will the dot 4.....
if you replace the master cylinder.. bench bleed it just buy a one man bleeding kit, this get most of the air out before u install it in the car......

greyfox

Thanks for all the help guys, I appreciate the responses! Parts are coming today, already got all the my fluid and cleaner etc. So as soon as it all gets here the work starts. If anyone has any other suggestions please don't hesitate!

snwbrderphat540

hmmm.... they all covered it, my suggestion though not to related, go out to an auto paint store, get some good chassis sealer, clean your underside of the car with a wire brush/sandpaper/sandblaster and wipe it all down and then seal that underbody. its starting to rust and wont stop unless you stop it. i did it and am soo very thankful it now looks like this under there:


and my dad did it, though not as good as me imo, lol and his is:



just something to consider and would be a good idea since these cars will rust through stupid fast

greyfox

Guys I am having problems with the brake lines. I am working on the drivers front and no matter what I try I cannot get it loose. I took out that bottom clip that holds the assembly in place and now I am trying to turn the large bolt at the top but it will not budge. I am holding the small bottom one that connects to the hard line but nothing is coming loose. I am afraid of damaging the hard line so I have stopped for now. How in the hell do I get the line off? Is there anything I need to know for the back of the car?

Strange how this is something the Haynes book does not explain?!? Just says remove the lines....

greyfox

Nevermind, I got it off. Flaire nut wrench is my friend.

Goofyz

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