Water to Air Intercoolers
12-07-2009 | 09:03 PM
#1
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From: Minneapolis, MN
Water to Air Intercoolers
What do you think about these? Wouldn't it be a lot easier to use one of these and just use the engine water to cool the air? Or would that just end up heating up the coolant and overheating the motor, without some really monsterous radiator/fan kit? I've been contemplating going this route, since it would be so much easier to install, wouldn't it? I mean, you don't have to worry about placement as much, and it would make pipe routing easier, right? Something like this? Or is air cooling more efficient?
12-07-2009 | 09:15 PM
#3
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What if you just ran no thermostat, or a lot lower temp? Seems there would be some way around that. The air ejected from the turbo is going to be hotter than the water, isn't it? Has anyone played with one of these? Interesting concept anyway, if you could keep the water cool enough. Seems like you could run the inlet water through a small heater core and cool it enough to make a huge difference. Water is a better heatsink than air, is it not? I'd love to do some tests somehow. I like the idea, just not sure how effective it is.
Last edited by SloppyGoat; 12-07-2009 at 09:39 PM.
12-07-2009 | 11:27 PM
#4
Ruff Ryder
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,140
From: palm desert
What if you just ran no thermostat, or a lot lower temp? Seems there would be some way around that. The air ejected from the turbo is going to be hotter than the water, isn't it? Has anyone played with one of these? Interesting concept anyway, if you could keep the water cool enough. Seems like you could run the inlet water through a small heater core and cool it enough to make a huge difference. Water is a better heatsink than air, is it not? I'd love to do some tests somehow. I like the idea, just not sure how effective it is.
12-07-2009 | 11:42 PM
#5
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Good point. You wouldn't want to get it out of range and fnck up the sensors.
What temp becomes dangerous and causes preignition? I would think engine temp would be considered pretty cool, compared to no intercooler. Maybe not? I know that running a small amount of water through the turbo itself increases the life of it greatly, and it's still running pretty damn hot. It's amazing how much more powerful it feels when it's 20 degrees or colder outside.
But is it necessary? What kind of temp do you get at the intake without one, running stock PSI? I'm wondering if a consistent temp, as long as it's well below that danger point, would be as effective.
What temp becomes dangerous and causes preignition? I would think engine temp would be considered pretty cool, compared to no intercooler. Maybe not? I know that running a small amount of water through the turbo itself increases the life of it greatly, and it's still running pretty damn hot. It's amazing how much more powerful it feels when it's 20 degrees or colder outside.
But is it necessary? What kind of temp do you get at the intake without one, running stock PSI? I'm wondering if a consistent temp, as long as it's well below that danger point, would be as effective.
Last edited by SloppyGoat; 12-07-2009 at 11:51 PM.
12-07-2009 | 11:50 PM
#6
Ruff Ryder
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,140
From: palm desert
Thats totally dependent on the conditions. the only way to know, is to measure them. I would assume them being in the 150's on a stock vg. Its been a while since I've fooled around with turbo's, but i think I remember them being about 7-800 degree's or so at the turbo.
12-07-2009 | 11:55 PM
#7
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From: Minneapolis, MN
They claim that water cooling is more efficient than air, but then they don't mention whether that's using a separate water cooling system. That definitely could be the part they're "forgetting" to mention. I'm just wondering if the temp it consistently brings it down to would be enough to avoid preignition, or if it's actually just going to heat the air, as you say. In a controlled water temp environment, the temp would not depend on outside temps as much at all. It would be very consistent. I find it hard to believe that the air entering the intake on a good 95 degree day (through an air IC) would be much cooler.
This is what they claim...
This is what they claim...
This impressive Water/Air intercooler is better than any front mount intercooler.
Similar in dimensions to a regular length of pipe, this intercooler provides the installation flexibility of a barrel-style water to air intercooler without the added cost and inefficiency.
Almost all of the high-efficiency water to air intercoolers on the market have your intake air changing direction twice. These Long Flow models keep it going straight the whole time, meaning your turbo doesn't have to work as hard, with the net result of more potential power.
Specs:
100% Lightweight aluminum - No epoxy used in core
Show quality mirror polish finish
Recommended for over 450 CFM
Pressure Drop: Less than 0.1 PSI. This is not a typo! Liquid/Air Intercoolers have incredibly low pressure drop.
Air Inlet/Outlet: 3.0"
Water Inlet/Outlet: 1/2" NPT
Maximum water/air pressure: 70 PSI
Some Water to Air Intercoolers that you can buy online do not contain true water to air cores. A true water to air core has water passages that are much smaller than the air passages. This is part of what allows the water to air intercooler to be so small and have such low pressure drop. Some water to air intercoolers that you buy online use an air to air core design where the air passages for ambient air and intake air are the same size, with an enormous loss of efficiency. Buy from us to make sure that you get a genuine water to air intercooler core.
Similar in dimensions to a regular length of pipe, this intercooler provides the installation flexibility of a barrel-style water to air intercooler without the added cost and inefficiency.
Almost all of the high-efficiency water to air intercoolers on the market have your intake air changing direction twice. These Long Flow models keep it going straight the whole time, meaning your turbo doesn't have to work as hard, with the net result of more potential power.
Specs:
100% Lightweight aluminum - No epoxy used in core
Show quality mirror polish finish
Recommended for over 450 CFM
Pressure Drop: Less than 0.1 PSI. This is not a typo! Liquid/Air Intercoolers have incredibly low pressure drop.
Air Inlet/Outlet: 3.0"
Water Inlet/Outlet: 1/2" NPT
Maximum water/air pressure: 70 PSI
Some Water to Air Intercoolers that you can buy online do not contain true water to air cores. A true water to air core has water passages that are much smaller than the air passages. This is part of what allows the water to air intercooler to be so small and have such low pressure drop. Some water to air intercoolers that you buy online use an air to air core design where the air passages for ambient air and intake air are the same size, with an enormous loss of efficiency. Buy from us to make sure that you get a genuine water to air intercooler core.
Last edited by SloppyGoat; 12-08-2009 at 12:04 AM.
12-08-2009 | 12:19 AM
#9
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From: Minneapolis, MN
I was thinking that you could splice a small heater core into the existing heater core hose and cool that water quickly enough to do it. It would still take up a lot less room, and may even all fit without doing any major BS to get it from the turbo to the intake. Just a thought. It's not hard to cool water. Another small radiator for the water IC. This has me wondering if there's a better way to do this, since I've been dreading the big hassle of putting IC piping in. But then, perhaps it's best to go with the tried and true air cooling method, even if it is kind of a bitch. I'd have to do some kind of experiment before I bought that thing. I'd have to know how cool that air needs to be before it makes a difference. I know the cooler the better, but if it's not 20F or below outside, it's probably not going to make much difference.
Oh! I forgot to mention, I found an old HS buddy who has his own car lift in his garage! He says I can use it anytime. That would definitely make the job easier. How many people do you know who have their own lift?! LOL I'm thinking I'm going to tackle this next spring, if my back holds out. I may end up having to have another surgery. This **** has really put a damper on my ability to work on the car. I'm also going to keep the A/C, which is why I'm even considering an alternate, more compact method. What diameter are the heater core hoses? Would it be enough flow?
Oh! I forgot to mention, I found an old HS buddy who has his own car lift in his garage! He says I can use it anytime. That would definitely make the job easier. How many people do you know who have their own lift?! LOL I'm thinking I'm going to tackle this next spring, if my back holds out. I may end up having to have another surgery. This **** has really put a damper on my ability to work on the car. I'm also going to keep the A/C, which is why I'm even considering an alternate, more compact method. What diameter are the heater core hoses? Would it be enough flow?
Last edited by SloppyGoat; 12-08-2009 at 12:39 AM.
12-08-2009 | 07:44 AM
#10
The Good Twin
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,639
From: Wild Wild West, UTAH!
Using engine coolant as the water source is ridiculous. Like Hoov said, you'd be heating the air, not cooling it.
Water to air IC's use their own closed system w/ a container, pump, and lines.
First freaking google result explains very well:
http://www.frozenboost.com/
Or you could simply the whole process and use a nitrous spray bar:
Water to air IC's use their own closed system w/ a container, pump, and lines.
First freaking google result explains very well:
http://www.frozenboost.com/
Or you could simply the whole process and use a nitrous spray bar:
12-08-2009 | 07:51 AM
#12
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Posts: 282
From: Minneapolis, MN
I see. So, this is basically worthless info...just more ebay BS. Bah!!! Fncking bastards...always trying to sell a new version of the tornado. 
I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and do the regular IC setup. I was just hoping not to have to pull the damn nose off, convert to electric fan, and all that ****, after spending all that money on a decent paint job and everything. More importantly, I can't afford my car to be torn down for too long, while I hunt down some goofy bend that turns out being a bitch to find, since it's the only car I have.
So, any suggestions on good IC systems that will keep my A/C intact? Or is it going to be a constant pick and hunt for parts, and fabricate what I can't find with **** that wasn't necessarily designed to fabricate those things? I want something that's long, but thin and will fit in the spoiler opening as nicely as possible, but probably with engine facing inlet/outlet. I don't want to cut anything on the body or in the engine bay, if possible. I am prepared to use the engine mount modification. Do you know if it adds a ridiculous amount of vibration transfer/noise?
I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and do the regular IC setup. I was just hoping not to have to pull the damn nose off, convert to electric fan, and all that ****, after spending all that money on a decent paint job and everything. More importantly, I can't afford my car to be torn down for too long, while I hunt down some goofy bend that turns out being a bitch to find, since it's the only car I have. So, any suggestions on good IC systems that will keep my A/C intact? Or is it going to be a constant pick and hunt for parts, and fabricate what I can't find with **** that wasn't necessarily designed to fabricate those things? I want something that's long, but thin and will fit in the spoiler opening as nicely as possible, but probably with engine facing inlet/outlet. I don't want to cut anything on the body or in the engine bay, if possible. I am prepared to use the engine mount modification. Do you know if it adds a ridiculous amount of vibration transfer/noise?
Last edited by SloppyGoat; 12-08-2009 at 08:24 AM.
12-08-2009 | 11:50 AM
#14
Über User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,532
From: lemont, Illinois
water to air is mostly used on really high hp drag cars, or supercharged cars. an air to air IC will work just fine. then like nismo pointed out you can get a prayer bar if you CRAVE that much cooling power (both NO2 and CO2 bottles suffice, CO2 is cheaper) or you can get a water/meth injection for high boost. but honestly. proper tuning and proper ducting intercooler size (air/air) is perfect. its been used for years.
12-08-2009 | 06:13 PM
#15
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 282
From: Minneapolis, MN
I don't want to have to worry about things that need to be refilled. 
Like which IC is small enough to fit nicely in the spoiler gap and still be efficient enough...that's more what I was getting at. Perhaps, something like this?
I knew you guys would list any possible negativaties that could be involved with such a cooling system, and that's exactly what I was looking for in this case. Nice ZX-6, BTW. 
Last edited by SloppyGoat; 12-08-2009 at 06:43 PM.
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